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-   -   The 2nd Amendment is alive and well (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=494245)

L'ennemi. 09-05-2007 07:26 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
[ QUOTE ]
two biggest myths of the politics of crime -

1.) Banning guns reduces gun violence
2.) The death penalty deters crime

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Maybe not banning guns but not having a lot less guns around certainly reduces gun violence.

L'ennemi. 09-05-2007 07:30 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
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Hundreds? I'd wager that the appeals process vacates the death penalty based on technicalities far more often than it does based on innocence.

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The fact that most appeals process rely on technicalities has nothing to do with the fact that it can save innocent lifes.

ikestoys 09-05-2007 07:37 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
two biggest myths of the politics of crime -

1.) Banning guns reduces gun violence
2.) The death penalty deters crime

[/ QUOTE ]

The Death Penalty would deter crime if it was enacted publicly within 24 hours of sentencing. You can thank the appeals process for the loss of deterence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but you have no idea if that is true. You just think it would be, you have no evidence to support that theory.

morphball 09-05-2007 08:00 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
Executions should be public, otherwise: out of sight out of mind. Something as severe as taking a person's life should not be done with any type of secrecy whatsoever. All of the public should have the right to see, scrutinize and criticize.

CallMeIshmael 09-05-2007 08:10 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
If this makes it to he SC, what are the expected votes / result?


Its not often I like Scalia, but this might be it.

iron81 09-05-2007 09:17 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
[ QUOTE ]
If this makes it to he SC, what are the expected votes / result?


Its not often I like Scalia, but this might be it.

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I don't think anyone can form a good guess. The Supreme Court hasn't decided a 2nd amendment case since 1939. However, given the general ideological bent, the decision will be 6-3 or 5-4.

wacki 09-05-2007 09:20 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
I wonder if this will impact California gun laws at all. If pistol laws are in violation of the 2A then 1/2 the laws in California are in violation.

iron81 09-05-2007 09:30 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
I just thought of something. As far as I'm aware, the Supreme Court has never "incorporated" the 2nd Amendment though the 14th Amendment, which means that at this moment, the 2nd Amendment does not apply to states and municipalities. DC is a special case because its a federal territory. I suppose its simple enough for the SCOTUS to incorporate the 2nd Amendment, but it is an additional hurdle.

But if the gun rights advocates win in the Supreme Court and get the 2nd Amendment incorporated, then the decision would absolutely have a big impact on California gun laws.

elwoodblues 09-05-2007 10:03 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
[ QUOTE ]
I just thought of something. As far as I'm aware, the Supreme Court has never "incorporated" the 2nd Amendment though the 14th Amendment, which means that at this moment, the 2nd Amendment does not apply to states and municipalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct --- which makes 2nd Amendment jurisprudence at the state level an interesting quandry for conservatives. On one hand, they generally think greater access to firearms is a good thing. On the other, they hate the incorporation doctrine and don't think the feds should be sticking their noses into the various state laws...

Copernicus 09-05-2007 10:12 PM

Re: The 2nd Amendment is alive and well
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hundreds? I'd wager that the appeals process vacates the death penalty based on technicalities far more often than it does based on innocence.

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50 or so murder cases exonerated via DNA evidence just from the Innocence Project alone - and IP typically takes cases where appeals have already been exhausted.

Those are not all DP cases, but the statistics do support me on this; I'll have to dig some link up if you need one, though, since I don't have Lexis/Westlaw anymore.

edit: (man, I've edited this post like 5 times already): http://www2.law.columbia.edu/instruc...man/index.html is linked off Wiki and is the classic resource for death penalty opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

My response was with regard to the appeals process, not reopening old cases because of new technology. Obviously that is going to result in a temporary rush as the justice system catches up.


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