LO8 Naked nut low draw on turn facing raise..
 

SB is loose and goes to Showdown a lot. BB is tight and kindof passive.

In this hand, I have the nut-low draw and nothing else on the turn. It was really weird for both of them to come alive on the turn. Would this spot be worth a call?

Pokerstars
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2.5BB, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, Hero ???

Re: LO8 Naked nut low draw on turn facing raise..
 

Also, one more naked low draw.

Pokerstars
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
4 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, 2 folds, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero ???.

Re: LO8 Naked nut low draw on turn facing raise..
 

Hand #1

Giant Fan - It's an astute squeeze raise by BB. My guess is BB wants you and everybody behind you to fold.

If you call, then everybody behind you is less likely to fold than if you call, but in that case you would have to seriously wonder about getting quartered or sixthed.

Any non-pairing low card on the river, from your perspective, 21/44, gives you either the nut low or the second nut low. 23/44 cards are bricks and you can fold. If you make low, you're stuck calling a single bet on the river, but then still might be worried about a raise behind you, especially if you end up with the second nut low.

SB and BB might have more or less random hands. It's really doubtful that you'll get sixthed or even quartered by SB or BB if low makes on the river. But there are still those players behind you yet to act.

Lots of possibilities here.

Goes against the grain to allow yourself to be bullied here, but there's not much you can do about it. You are out of position.

Think of it this way: If anybody would have bet on the flop, you would have folded.

It was a fine bet by SB and then an excellent squeeze raise by BB.

I think you have to fold.

Buzz

Re: LO8 Naked nut low draw on turn facing raise..
 

Hand #2

Giant Fan - What an ugly turn card!

The turn might not have helped CO either, but once you check, CO, if a decent player, will probably bet. It's the general problem of being out of position.

CO made a good raise on the flop. It's pretty hard for you to re-raise, and then it's tough for you to bet a missed turn.

And now you're looking at a risk of one big bet to possibly win half of what was in the pot after the second betting round.

$4*3.75/2 = $7.5.

So if you call, you're risking $4 to possibly win $7.50 if you don't get quartered. If you do get quartered, you'll roughly break even.

A three might win high for you, with low probably going to your opponent. So any low card but an ace or a deuce probably wins half the pot for you. Four and a half ranks (18 cards) out of a total of 44 unknown cards. Odds of 26 to 18 against you. Your implied half pot odds are 7.5 to 4.

You should be able to see without dividing that 7.5/4 is almost 2, while 26/18 is almost 1.5. And therefore, you're getting better pot odds than the odds are against making your hand.

I realize there's a danger of getting quartered for low, but there's also a chance of scooping or winning 3/4.

This time I'd call.

Buzz

Re: LO8 Naked nut low draw on turn facing raise..
 

Beginner f/u question here re: hand selection. I've just started playing but have been staying away from low hands without suited aces - am I playing too tight? Are either of these hands a fold pf?

Re: LO8 Naked nut low draw on turn facing raise..
 

well you usually wanna call with a 9 2 4 even call three bets in front of you if its single suited but a339 is a bit loose considering your most likely drawing to half the pot unless you hit the nut flush, therfore i think that it depends how the flow of the game is going on regards to hand ranges.....also these two hands are folds for you giants, you cant call 2 big bets when there was nothing in the pot and no one bet the flop....

Re: LO8 Naked nut low draw on turn facing raise..
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've just started playing but have been staying away from low hands without suited aces - am I playing too tight?

[/ QUOTE ]Arouet - Yes, but that's not a bad thing to do as a beginner.
[ QUOTE ]
Are either of these hands a fold pf?

[/ QUOTE ]No. Not for me - although I don't like the second hand much because of the pair of threes and the nine - but I'm still going to see the flop with it in the game described. Suited ace-three alone, for me, is just about always playable for one bet, even one as bad as A339s.

Buzz