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-   -   *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread *** (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=521596)

PITTM 11-22-2007 01:38 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
sigh

offTopic 11-22-2007 03:14 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
sigh

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard...back end of a road b2b against one of the better teams? The W's ain't THAT good...

OtisBlue415 11-22-2007 03:33 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
The most alarming part is Don Nelson running Baron Davis into the ground. You could clearly see the lift he had in his jumper last night was gone.

offTopic 11-26-2007 02:51 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
PITTM in the 49er thread:

[ QUOTE ]
Can a sports team i like not suck for a little while plz?

[/ QUOTE ]

Underdogs tonight, but hopefully the game will be entertaining...if both teams play well, look for a something in the 260s, and if the 3s fall, who knows?

Also best road trip since Rick Barry was sporting the blue and gold nuthuggers!

AllinDan 11-26-2007 07:08 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
normally I'd post something here about how excited I am for tonights game, but every time I do that we get crushed, so I'm just gonna hope for an entertaining game

PITTM 11-26-2007 08:53 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
i will be watching, almost certainly stoned.

BobboFitos 11-27-2007 12:16 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
normally I'd post something here about how excited I am for tonights game, but every time I do that we get crushed, so I'm just gonna hope for an entertaining game

[/ QUOTE ]
GSW are back w/ jaxx.

PITTM 11-27-2007 12:20 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
45 point 1st quarter ftw.

moayer 11-27-2007 12:46 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
i will be watching, almost certainly stoned.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you able to follow the supersonic pace?

Chris Daddy Cool 11-27-2007 12:51 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
jesus, 72-63 halftime. go WARRRIORS!!!!!!!

obviously the pace is ridiculous right now, but i fully expect the warriors to be able to keep pouring it on, only problem is 9 points is nothing in these types of games.

Chris Daddy Cool 11-27-2007 01:25 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
105-93. gogogogogogo! seriously this team has been sooo much better since jackson's return.

offTopic 11-27-2007 01:31 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
105-93. gogogogogogo! seriously this team has been sooo much better since jackson's return.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. It pushed everyone one down in the rotation.

8.5 mins is soooooooo long...plz keep shooting well kthx!

offTopic 11-27-2007 01:49 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
M O N T A

BobboFitos 11-27-2007 02:13 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
who would've thought steven jackson would be the difference between a 1-6 team and a 5-1 team?

<---

Semtex 11-27-2007 02:15 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
who would've thought steven jackson would be the difference between a 1-6 team and a 5-1 team?

[/ QUOTE ]
its funny because this basically happened to my fantasy team when he started playing

BobboFitos 11-27-2007 02:19 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
who would've thought steven jackson would be the difference between a 1-6 team and a 5-1 team?

[/ QUOTE ]
its funny because this basically happened to my fantasy team when he started playing

[/ QUOTE ]
too early to insert "sjaxx for mvp" ?

moayer 11-27-2007 03:42 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
who would've thought steven jackson would be the difference between a 1-6 team and a 5-1 team?

[/ QUOTE ]

only everybody paying any attention.

T_Mac 11-27-2007 03:54 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
Is this bandwagon full? God I love watching GS.

AllinDan 11-27-2007 05:34 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
Monta Ellis is exciting but largely overrated. He isn't very efficient. He definitely shouldn't have won the MIP over Kevin Martin, a true stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna unilaterally decide that it's not too late for you to take this back [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

absolutely thrilling game. Playoff atmosphere, and somehow for once G state never let the suns get back to even.

PITTM 11-27-2007 03:36 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
WHAT IT DU-KE

my new favorite thing to yell while watching warriors games.

BobboFitos 11-28-2007 02:36 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Monta Ellis is exciting but largely overrated. He isn't very efficient. He definitely shouldn't have won the MIP over Kevin Martin, a true stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna unilaterally decide that it's not too late for you to take this back [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

absolutely thrilling game. Playoff atmosphere, and somehow for once G state never let the suns get back to even.

[/ QUOTE ]
Uhh kevin martin is still miles ahead of monta

PITTM 11-28-2007 12:54 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
completely disagree.

offTopic 11-28-2007 02:07 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Monta Ellis is exciting but largely overrated. He isn't very efficient. He definitely shouldn't have won the MIP over Kevin Martin, a true stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna unilaterally decide that it's not too late for you to take this back [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

absolutely thrilling game. Playoff atmosphere, and somehow for once G state never let the suns get back to even.

[/ QUOTE ]
Uhh kevin martin is still miles ahead of monta

[/ QUOTE ]

I've only seen a couple of Kings games over the last three seasons (just when on TV against the Warriors), so grain of salt, etc, etc, but I don't think it's "miles". Martin is clearly a better shooter from deep and from the line, and aside from that, their "traditional" stats look pretty comparable, and Martin is two years older. Maybe yards ahead? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

kidcolin 11-28-2007 02:25 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
completely disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you're a homer and that's cute and all, but it's not even close. Martin's a true stud, a go-to guy on a squad that is pretty desperate for offense. Ellis is a nice little guard who seems better than he is playing Nellie-ballstothewall offense, but he's essentially pretty average. Torching Steve Nash does not a star make.

It basically comes down to Martin being a much more efficient scorer (not to mention a much better rebounder as well). He's scoring 8 more ppg in a little over 3 more shots per game. In terms of pts/shot, Monta is pretty good with ~1.24, but Martin is a scorching 1.49.

PITTM 11-28-2007 03:20 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
Yeah, i think the "yards ahead" comment is more how i feel. Monta is 2 years younger and I feel like he has way more room for development than k mart. Also, martin currently gets way more minutes than ellis.

kidcolin 11-28-2007 03:44 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
The minutes thing actually favors Martin. Generally, the per minute type stats are biased towards guys playing shorter minutes (David Lee is a prime example). However, Martin performs much better on any sort of per/minute or per/possession stat. Better at everything except assists. Martin's PER: 21 (20 last season)(pretty/very good). Monta's: 15 (same last season) (exactly average). TS%, eFG%, rebound rate, turnover rate.. they all favor Martin.

Put it this way: I doubt Monta is every signing anything like a 5yr/$55M extension like Martin just did. I'd venture to guess that if they got traded straight up, the Kings would have only 1 win so far, and the Warriors wouldn't have started out on that 0-fer stretch.

PITTM 11-28-2007 03:52 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
I didnt know you were using per 48 minutes stats. I didn;t know martin was playing so well. sick.

kidcolin 11-28-2007 04:05 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
Yeah.. I generally think the 5/$55M is a steal. I think that's generally Rip Hamilton money, and though they're similar, I think Martin is a bit better. The back-end of that deal is going to seem pretty cheap in 2010 or whatever.

That being said, Monta's playing much better lately, I'm sure partly because he shoulders less load with S-Jax on the floor. He's a good fit for the Warriors and Nelly ball suits him almost perfectly (he sucks at 3s).

offTopic 11-28-2007 04:08 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
The minutes thing actually favors Martin. Generally, the per minute type stats are biased towards guys playing shorter minutes (David Lee is a prime example). However, Martin performs much better on any sort of per/minute or per/possession stat. Better at everything except assists. Martin's PER: 21 (20 last season)(pretty/very good). Monta's: 15 (same last season) (exactly average). TS%, eFG%, rebound rate, turnover rate.. they all favor Martin.

Put it this way: I doubt Monta is every signing anything like a 5yr/$55M extension like Martin just did. I'd venture to guess that if they got traded straight up, the Kings would have only 1 win so far, and the Warriors wouldn't have started out on that 0-fer stretch.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I think this is why Nellie desperately(?) wants to convert Monta to PG. He said earlier in the year that as a 2, Monta is just a nice player, but as a 1, he could be a star.

Anyway, hopefully the Ws can turn the Kings over and keep them off the line.

AllinDan 11-28-2007 09:34 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
I didn't really mean to start a Monta vs Martin debate here, I was more focused on the fact that Monta was "overrated" because of a few bad games. Is he now underrated?

That said, Martin may be a better player now, but I'd be surprised if that's still the case in 2 years.

Also, fwiw there was an article in the chronicle today about how Nellie is gonna be ok with Monta being a scorer and not a true pg, because he's obviously pretty damn good at putting the ball in the basket

kidcolin 11-28-2007 09:39 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]

That said, Martin may be a better player now, but I'd be surprised if that's still the case in 2 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?

kidcolin 11-28-2007 09:46 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
I guess we'll see tonight. I somewhat expect the Warriors to run the Kings off the floor. Udrih is gonna get exposed.

PITTM 11-28-2007 09:54 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That said, Martin may be a better player now, but I'd be surprised if that's still the case in 2 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he thinks monta has more potential imo.

BobboFitos 11-28-2007 10:42 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That said, Martin may be a better player now, but I'd be surprised if that's still the case in 2 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he thinks monta has more potential imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think you get it, Martin is a top 30 NBA player atm and a potential top 10 player. Ellis is like a top 100 player, maybe 75, which means he'd be a suitable starter on most teams. But he isn't really all star caliber right now, and his ceiling is not like a prime allen iverson or michael redd type deal, it's more of a class behind that...

AllinDan 11-28-2007 10:54 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]

Based on what?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't watched K-mart as much as Monta, and I'm obviously biased and a die hard Warriors fan, but this is why:

Kevin Martin: born 2/1/1983
Monta Ellis: born 10/26/1985

also, here's an awesome feature from 1.5 years ago about Monta:



LINK

[ QUOTE ]
. . .Reaching the top would deliver Ellis from Jackson. He grew up in a section of town considered gang turf, living in his grandparents' house with his mother, Rosa, and his two brothers. Drug peddlers plied their trade in the open; gunplay interrupted the drone of cicadas. As a youngster, wary of walking alone to a nearby basketball court, Monta built a makeshift hoop by nailing a milk crate to a light post in front of the house. He would shoot baskets into the evening, finally quitting when his mother ordered him to bed.

In later years, Antwain brought his younger brother along to pickup games, where Monta learned that even big kids stop talking smack when you blow past them. He revered Antwain, a member of Lanier's 1999 state title team, whose 6-foot-8 frame and shooting touch stirred talk of a possible pro career, until a teammate's murder derailed his ambition.

The teenager, a close friend of Antwain's, died over a $30 dope deal, an incident that pushed Antwain into chronic depression. His NBA aspirations long since faded, he lives with his mother and her husband in Jackson, "not doing much of anything," Rosa says.

His brother's unraveling "opened my eyes to how much you can lose," Monta Ellis says, while giving him tunnel vision to pursue his own hoop dreams. He devoted himself to working with Billups, the uncle of Detroit Pistons guard Chauncey Billups. Beyond refining Ellis' shooting form and teaching him to read the entire court, the coach instilled in the high-schooler a passion for defense, a rare trait among young players. Billups also provided reassurance when one senior questioned the decision to hand the team's reins to a freshman.

[/ QUOTE ]

AllinDan 11-28-2007 11:02 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]


But he isn't really all star caliber right now, and his ceiling is not like a prime allen iverson or michael redd type deal, it's more of a class behind that...

[/ QUOTE ]

one of these is not like the other. Iverson is obviously a better comparison because of his size, but AI is a unique player. "oh his ceiling is lower than one of the great players of all time" isn't really the worst thing you can say about someone.

I think Monta will be better than Michael Redd, though obviously a different type of player and probably a worse rebounder. (And 6'3 instead of 6'6)

Yeah, he's not an all star right now. He's also 21 and in his 3rd year. There really aren't that many all stars with less than 150 games played in their careers.

kidcolin 11-28-2007 11:08 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
meh.. the age thing is nice and all, I'll believe it when Ellis is actually the next Billups. So far Martin is really the guy putting insane amounts of work into his game. Each year he's got something new, and his improvement from an unknown scrub out of Western Carolina to a bonafide stud 3 years later has been startling.

Didn't know Ellis was out of Jackson. I spent a week there 4 years ago. Place is messed up. Whole sections of the city were dilapidated and seemingly abandoned. And totally segregated of course.

kidcolin 11-28-2007 11:12 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
Jesus man..

[ QUOTE ]

I think Monta will be better than Michael Redd, though obviously a different type of player and probably a worse rebounder. (And 6'3 instead of 6'6)

[/ QUOTE ]

All I can say is prepared to be disappointed. I was actually thinking it'd be awesome if Martin reaches Redd's level (who is currently peaking). I'll poop my pants if Monta ever has that kind of impact.

BobboFitos 11-29-2007 01:29 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
YES CAPTAIN JACK !!!! ANYONE ELSE WATCHING THIS? TWO [censored] HUGE 3s IN A ROW

BobboFitos 11-29-2007 01:29 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]

I think Monta will be better than Michael Redd, though obviously a different type of player and probably a worse rebounder. (And 6'3 instead of 6'6)

[/ QUOTE ]
prop bet?


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