hey
 

what do you think oF SB's play in this hand?

HJ openraises. SB reraises AJo. BB calls. HJ calls.

flop KJ4 rainbow. SB bets, BB calls, HJ raises, SB 3-bets, both call.

turn 6. SB bets and both call.

river 8. SB checks, BB bets, HJ calls, SB folds.

Re: hey
 

depends on reads...but i think the fold on the riv is probably ok, hard to make an overcall there

Re: hey
 

i think it's somewhere between ok and expert, depending on HJ's pfr and af.

Re: hey
 

I think the flop play is pretty bad barring some bizarre read that hj always has QT, QJ or worse here. River is standard.

Re: hey
 

With no reads I wouldn't 3 bet the flop. River fold seems OK given the parlay, if we can 3 bet the flop we should have HJ beat a bit, but BB would probably check worse made hands, and who decides to bluff a busted draw there but a retard? Having said that I'd go on week tilt if I folded the best hand, and possibly would've made the call at the table to prevent that.

Re: hey
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think it's somewhere between ok and expert, depending on HJ's pfr and af.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually think its more like terrible to expert depending on HJs pfr and af.

Re: hey
 

The flop play is obviously debateable and Nina is right. SB should have c/r'd. And yes I know we're giving up initiative.

In fact, I think you can make a case for check / raising the turn after 3 betting the flop because the Q is really the only card we don't want to see if HJ checks behind and HJ might bet a weaker hand on the turn and we have a big chance to push BB off what appears to be a weak or marginal hand. If he has a K so be it. Of course when HJ bets the odds he has a K increase, so this play is very controversial. However, so is betting the turn after a flop 3 bet. And the line you guys want to take is nitty.

Had we c/r'd the flop, check calling the turn is fairly obvious especially if BB is out.

The river I'll have to think about and really depends on our prior action which I think should include a check / raise somewhere.

My prediction is most others on this board likes calling the flop raise, check / calling the turn, and debating about a river laydown that could be the best hand.

I think sb's play is better than your nitty line.

Now flame me.

Re: hey
 

[ QUOTE ]
The flop play is obviously debateable and Nina is right. SB should have c/r'd. And yes I know we're giving up initiative.

In fact, I think you can make a case for check / raising the turn after 3 betting the flop because the Q is really the only card we don't want to see if HJ checks behind and HJ might bet a weaker hand on the turn and we have a big chance to push BB off what appears to be a weak or marginal hand. If he has a K so be it. Of course when HJ bets the odds he has a K increase, so this play is very controversial. However, so is betting the turn after a flop 3 bet. And the line you guys want to take is nitty.

Had we c/r'd the flop, check calling the turn is fairly obvious especially if BB is out.

The river I'll have to think about and really depends on our prior action which I think should include a check / raise somewhere.

My prediction is most others on this board likes calling the flop raise, check / calling the turn, and debating about a river laydown that could be the best hand.

I think sb's play is better than your nitty line.

Now flame me.

[/ QUOTE ]

this makes no sense. You realize we have AJo, and the flop is KJ4 RB. Also we 3-bet pf and were just CC by the BB? Why would we ever c/r the flop? And regardless of whether or not we 3-bet or called a flop raise why would we ever c/r the turn?

Barring some amazing read or crazy stats on both villains, advice to c/r either street with 2nd pair is pretty horrible in a multiway pot where we had initiative preflop.

you should probably go back and read the OP because it really doesn't make sense what you are suggesting.

Re: hey
 

Who are the players?

I think under special circumstances the flop play is ok.

If HJ is Miles who will sometimes raise a draw in position if he thinks it helps him win a big pot(right Miles?) and if BB is a player who SB knows will raise a K on that flop. Well, then I can see why he 3-bets.

But as a default without knowing anything about the players and dynamics I think the flop play is terrible.

Re: hey
 

button is enfys (30/20/3.5 over 4500 hands) and i'm pretty sure he raises JT on the flop and maybe the oesd (i do not know this for sure but he is definitely overaggressive on the flop).

i left out reads so people would come up with a read that would make sb's play ok/bad/good.

i do not think enfys will ever fold a K to my turn bet unless he's divinely inspired.

intuitively at the table it seemed like i had decent equity against enfys (not great obviously) and that i should take the hit to possibly get HU and since i could safely c/f the river against him if it stays 3-way.

Re: hey
 

Against this lineup I dont mind your play if you think you can get it HU by 3-betting. Rainbow guy overplays flops big time

Re: hey
 

[ QUOTE ]
button is enfys (30/20/3.5 over 4500 hands) and i'm pretty sure he raises JT on the flop and maybe the oesd (i do not know this for sure but he is definitely overaggressive on the flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean HJ not button? Enfys range to open here is pretty open. I saw doing it in the last couple days with suited J. If he knows you're agressive and will be 3betting him out of blinds light I think he'd riase the J a lot.

Re: hey
 

i am so lazy i am not going to look up his exact position as i just retyped the hand from memory. he was either hijack, cutoff, or button. also just wanted to mention i wasn't too curious about the river play as i just can not overcall there. i wanted to get thoughts on the flop really. i liked it.

Re: hey
 

[ QUOTE ]
i am so lazy i am not going to look up his exact position as i just retyped the hand from memory. he was either hijack, cutoff, or button. also just wanted to mention i wasn't too curious about the river play as i just can not overcall there. i wanted to get thoughts on the flop really. i liked it.

[/ QUOTE ]


even against the rainbow guy, I think your hands suck when he raises the flop.

I understand why you are 3betting, I'm just not sure it's worth it. The problem is, even if you are winning, rainbow isn't going to fold the turn with a J, and if you check the river, he might bet with a J.

All that said, you know what's going on, and it's a tough spot to be in.

Re: hey
 

another hand with him

he raises late position with T9

SB calls

i 3-bet JJ in the BB

flop 985 i bet he raises sb calls i 3-bet he caps lol

Re: hey
 

are you ever 3betting a hand there that doesn't have him beat? seems like a pretty bad cap to me unless he is going to take a free card or something

edit: I don't think taking a free card here is a good play, but it would make his cap better

Re: hey
 

I can dig the AJ 3bet. T9 cap seems retarded.

Re: hey
 

flop is a total spew.

Re: hey
 

[ QUOTE ]
flop is a total spew.

[/ QUOTE ]
keep folding winners!

Re: hey
 

Given the description of the flop raiser, I think the 3bet is fine, especially with the BB involved.

I have mixed feelings about the river; I need to think about it more, but betting is fun.

Rainbow
 

Wow do I really play on Absolute enough to get my play discussed on the 2+2 forums.

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