30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

Full game on Pokerstars. 3 out of the first four players limp,I limp with KKJ10 three spades, another two players limp behind me, and the blinds come in.

So eight players see the flop which comes:

10 5 5 two [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked around to player directly to my left who bets, player on the button calls, I call closing the action and getting 10-1.

Turn offsuit 10: I lead out, both players call.

River 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check, not sure whether I will call a bet

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

Are these players bad enough to pay you off with a stiff 4? Are they tricky enough to raise a worse hand at the river?

I would be tempted to bet-fold to wring a little value from a stubborn 4. (If either player rivered a flush, they'd have to be retarded to raise here.) I'm not sure if this is my LHE mentality coming through.

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

Wow tuff spot.w 2 players left to act checking is def the best play. I'm not calling any bets here.

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

Not only can you not beat a flush. But 45 is definately a possibility. I think betting and folding to a raise is the play on the river.

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

I still can't decide if I like bet/folding or check calling more. Check/folding seems too weak since it seems like one of them will bet a 5 or a 10 some of the time here if it is checked to them. Obviously I am not overcalling here though.
Interested to hear ppl's thoughts on turn lead as well. And I really had no significant history with either of these players, other than that they had gotten out of my way preflop when I raised.

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I still can't decide if I like bet/folding or check calling more. Check/folding seems too weak since it seems like one of them will bet a 5 or a 10 some of the time here if it is checked to them. Obviously I am not overcalling here though.
Interested to hear ppl's thoughts on turn lead as well. And I really had no significant history with either of these players, other than that they had gotten out of my way preflop when I raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about what buzz said in my other thread where I bet-folded two pair at the river. Observant opponents will start raising you in weird spots knowing that you bet-fold a lot and that you'll need a full house to call there (which is unlikely, given the way you've played your hand). Ck/calling gets you valuebet to death, but it's less exploitable overall and the mistakes you might make are fractional compared to folding the entire pot trying to save one bet.

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

I read buzz's post in that thread and I agree that bet/folding can be exploitable but nonetheless most players aren't ballsy enough to bluffraise the river a lot, particularly if they are basing that play on something you do infrequently. I think you just need to be careful about how frequently you bet with the intention of folding to a raise. Check/calling can often be just as good in these spots since it allows you to snap off bluffs from missed draws.

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

2handed - I would generally check call this river. I don't think you induce a bluff as much as you get trip fives to bet.

Good point about most opponents not being ballsy enough to bluff raise on the river.

(But some are).

I think your turn bet was fine.

Buzz

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

dude wtf say hi next time.

Re: 30-60 FR debatable high hand play
 

[ QUOTE ]
dude wtf say hi next time.

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Heh, I will. I had a ride coming. I looked at the outer roulette tables on my way by, but you weren't there.