Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

Here a hand payed on Ipoker and i was not sure of the best play on the turn. The SB is a pure calling station, he overcall with third an even forth pair but have only 80 hands with him. UTG is a winning player, i know him very well and he knows me also pretty well. Lot of respect between us.

Preflop (5$-10$ 6 handed)

UTG raise, 3 folds and SB 3bet, i cape in the BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], they both call.

Flop is : Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bet, i raise and they both call

turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB donk again, what's the best play here?

I really don't like the calling station donking here again and i don't like UTG to still be in the pot after i caped preflop and raise on the flop even if he had 7.5 : 1 on the flop, he must know i have AA or KK or QQ cause AK, JJ and TT i don't play it like it.

Here what i though:

I know for sure that they don't have 66 cause UTG would fold 66 when capped and the calling station would just call with it, so only 88 or QQ is ahead of me here so that 4 possible combos.

SB can have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and play the same way or any AQo, that 12 combos, for UTG, AK is possible, also JJ or TT but i really notsure for these hand. So i think it's a raise here but should i fold if 3bet by UTG?, by SB?

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

You must raise here to protect your hand. You don't want the UTG drawing to hand that can possibly beat you.

Since the SB 3bet PF, it's very unlikely he has an 8. He might've picked up a flush draw and thinks his hand is worth betting.

If you get 3 bet, call down.

Heads up, I would probably go into call down mode, depends on my opponent, but since there's a 3rd player involved it's a must to get him out.

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

You should add AA to villains range as well

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

[ QUOTE ]
You must raise here to protect your hand. You don't want the UTG drawing to hand that can possibly beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands do you think UTG has that hero wants to fold?

JT, J9, T9?

I dont think he has those.

He might have a few flush draws like AQcc and A8cc.

Protection your hand here is not that important


@ OP

Would you consider calling turn and raise a non A or Q river?

I think thats what I would do.

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You must raise here to protect your hand. You don't want the UTG drawing to hand that can possibly beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands do you think UTG has that hero wants to fold?

JT, J9, T9?

I dont think he has those.

He might have a few flush draws like AQcc and A8cc.

Protection your hand here is not that important


@ OP

Would you consider calling turn and raise a non A or Q river?

I think thats what I would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the pot is big, Hero wants UTG to fold any hand that can possibly beat him. He doesn't need to worry about getting more value from the UTG, his concern at this point should be doing everything possible to increase his chances of winning the pot.

Now if the board has two Queens and the SB donked, I be more inclined to go with a passive line, since it's very possible we're behind. On this board texture, I think Hero is ahead enough to confidently raise.

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since the pot is big, Hero wants UTG to fold any hand that can possibly beat him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also if he is drawing dead or drawing to two outs? (rhetorical question and the answer is no)

Again. Put UTG on a range of hands and consider whether you want him to fold

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

Fwiw, I'd just call here. "The SB is a pure calling station"; "UTG raise, 3 folds and SB 3bet"; "SB bet, I raise, SB donks again"; "I think Hero is ahead enough to confidently raise", Really?

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

Oops, scratch my line.

Forgot the UTG cold-called the flop raise. Now I like the passive line more. The UTG could very well have a timid AA, fearing the set or has the set and is waiting to pop the turn.

Smells like like the UTG has AA, AQ, QQ or the other KK.

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

When I read the title I knew my answer would be no. I would play this passively as well, assuming I'm WA/WB. Just be careful and don't let the good player try and push you out of this pot so he can get the other player to himself.

Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
 

If your goign to fold to the 3bet then I would prefer just calling down. This is a hand you want to showdown with.