Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

Brendo_8 just chip dumped $140,000 to Callum Ford on Ongame at the 50-100 NL tables...I tried to tell Hollywood Poker's support to get those accounts frozen so there would be no time to dump that money elsewhere, but they didn't seem to care. With all of the account hacking and fraud going on these days I figured they'd make some sort of effort. The only other thing I could think of was to post here and hope maybe someone could do someting about it, hopefully it was already caught by their controls. Did anyone else see that?

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

I'll get right on it.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

might get better responses in "internet gambling" forum.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

There's some sort of "Ongame Ombudsman" who started posting here a month ago who seemed to care (a little).

Look him up and contact him.

(Hollywood Poker support is pathetic - you'll get nowhere with them.)

p.s i play ongame highstakes NL and have never seen either of those players. sounds fishy.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

screenshot/HH?

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

p.s. ongame support is so brutal

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

how does this affect you and why is this a problem to anyone but ongame if he didnt play with the huge stack?

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9...itchingjk6.jpg

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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how does this affect you and why is this a problem to anyone but ongame if he didnt play with the huge stack?

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9...itchingjk6.jpg

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You've got to be kidding? This is a huge deal. Are you condoning people defrauding poker rooms? The more people steal the worse the promotions are, the more innocent people get their accounts locked and the more likely a room is to raise the rake to cover large amounts of money stolen.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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how does this affect you and why is this a problem to anyone but ongame if he didnt play with the huge stack?

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9...itchingjk6.jpg

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You've got to be kidding? This is a huge deal. Are you condoning people defrauding poker rooms? The more people steal the worse the promotions are, the more innocent people get their accounts locked and the more likely a room is to raise the rake to cover large amounts of money stolen.

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I was asking a question and you answered it for me. How are these people stealing money from ongame though if one person is dumping to the other?

I also don't condone people "defrauding" pokerrooms, but if they are not cheating anyone, than I couldnt care less.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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how does this affect you and why is this a problem to anyone but ongame if he didnt play with the huge stack?

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9...itchingjk6.jpg

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You've got to be kidding? This is a huge deal. Are you condoning people defrauding poker rooms? The more people steal the worse the promotions are, the more innocent people get their accounts locked and the more likely a room is to raise the rake to cover large amounts of money stolen.

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I was asking a question and you answered it for me. How are these people stealing money from ongame though if one person is dumping to the other?

I also don't condone people "defrauding" pokerrooms, but if they are not cheating anyone, than I couldnt care less.

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WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO DUMP 140K GENIUS? LEGITIMATE BUSINESS YOU THINK?

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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how does this affect you and why is this a problem to anyone but ongame if he didnt play with the huge stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got to be kidding? This is a huge deal. Are you condoning people defrauding poker rooms? The more people steal the worse the promotions are, the more innocent people get their accounts locked and the more likely a room is to raise the rake to cover large amounts of money stolen.

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QFT. Yes, it seems cool to have the laid back attitude and the "stop snitching" pic, but where the [censored] do you think that $130,000 is going to come from if the site gets screwed because of CC fraud, money laundering, etc? Also, everyone always bitches when the sites ask for a bunch of ID when cashing out - the more fraud that happens, the more sites are going to be asking for this stuff.

It would be one thing if it was 2 buddies trying to dump $50 to one another so they can play micros (still against T&C's, but no reason for us to get worked up), but $130,000?? Stop snitching??? LOL!

Finally, how much in favor of "stop snitching" will you be if your account is hacked, dumped to someone else, and cashed out?

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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I also don't condone people "defrauding" pokerrooms, but if they are not cheating anyone, than I couldnt care less.

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How do you know they aren't cheating anyone? Any chance the account being dumped from has been hacked? Seems like one of the most likely scenarios to me. I find it hard to envision any "legitimate" reason for the dump...anyone who has $130,000 online should know enough not to try to "transfer" to someone else by chip dumping.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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I also don't condone people "defrauding" pokerrooms, but if they are not cheating anyone, than I couldnt care less.

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How do you know they aren't cheating anyone? Any chance the account being dumped from has been hacked? Seems like one of the most likely scenarios to me. I find it hard to envision any "legitimate" reason for the dump...anyone who has $130,000 online should know enough not to try to "transfer" to someone else by chip dumping.

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I didn't say they aren't cheating anyone, I said IF they aren't cheating anyone than I couldn't care less. I obviously don't condone people's accounts getting hacked and their money stolen. But to be honest, like I said earlier, I could care less if people are stealing from Ongame, especially Pokerroom, even though I still don't understand how this is stealing from Ongame.

If the guy did hack someone's account and is stealing his cash, then he should burn in hell. If they are laundering, then its non of my business.

EDIT: has a site ever upped its rake to cover money fraud, stolen cc's etc?? serious question, I obviously don't know much about this.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

obviously the rake covers expenses, and fraud is an expense of doing business.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

What is your name teddyfbi?? Maybe I'd recognize you!

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

[ QUOTE ]
how does this affect you and why is this a problem to anyone but ongame if he didnt play with the huge stack?

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9...itchingjk6.jpg

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and you're dumb

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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EDIT: has a site ever upped its rake to cover money fraud, stolen cc's etc?? serious question, I obviously don't know much about this.

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Fraud is massive expense for poker rooms and in some occasions fraud can bust poker rooms. Any time rake goes up assume fraud has gone up too as it is one of the top expenses a poker room has. This is why some poker roms seem overly paranoid.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

OP: what table did this occur at. Was it one of the tables with a name, or was it a private table that can be created by any player?

And plz describe dumping. Was it one player raising everything except $1, and the other one folding?

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: has a site ever upped its rake to cover money fraud, stolen cc's etc?? serious question, I obviously don't know much about this.

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Not that I've heard of; I have to admit on second thought that a direct link may be a bit of a red herring...although I'm sure less bonus could be a possibility if fraud like this was rampant.

The bigger issue really is other players being ripped off, which is the main reason I think it is incumbent on players to report chip dumping like this.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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OP: what table did this occur at. Was it one of the tables with a name, or was it a private table that can be created by any player?

And plz describe dumping. Was it one player raising everything except $1, and the other one folding?

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It was a private 50-100 table for two people. The dumper would raise to 9900 and fold to the all in of the other one. The receiver left with 150K in probably 5 minutes.

Teddy I'm curious who you are, I sweat lots of HS games but didn't know any were 2+2 posters! GL

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

Yeah I also saw this. I thought momentarily about contacting someone but I couldn't think who, there are just too many skins.

It was a private table and one guy would raise to $9900 and fold to a raise, then reload.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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how does this affect you and why is this a problem to anyone but ongame if he didnt play with the huge stack?

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If it gets established that online poker rooms are routinely tolerating large-scale money laundering then there will be no more online poker.

"If you build it they will come" applies very strongly to money laundering conduits. Give organized crime and organized terrorism a good way to move large amounts of money and they will exploit it every time.

It's fashionable to think that the U.S. government is making a serious effort to attack online gambling but really they aren't. That will change very quickly if online poker is perceived as a true threat to national security. Washington will become deadly serious about money transfers and the poker sites will become so radioactive no one will do business with them.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

Thank you for the serious replies to my ignorance and for not just calling me ignorant and flaming me. I never looked at the bigger picture.

All I saw it as were two people transferring money to each other because the only way to do it on Ongame is in the form of $100 gift vouchers. I now understand why I got the replies I did after I made my 1st post, and why it is wrong.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

You guys really are a bunch of paranoid clowns. When is the last time OnGame raised its rake? When is the last time a chip dumping scam put a poker room out of business? Seriously, stop snitching. This chip dumping episode is going to have no bearing on your bottom line. Besides which, there are dozens of reasons to chip dump that aren't detrimental to a poker network.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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"If you build it they will come" applies very strongly to money laundering conduits. Give organized crime and organized terrorism a good way to move large amounts of money and they will exploit it every time.

It's fashionable to think that the U.S. government is making a serious effort to attack online gambling but really they aren't. That will change very quickly if online poker is perceived as a true threat to national security. Washington will become deadly serious about money transfers and the poker sites will become so radioactive no one will do business with them.

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If this "sky is falling" sentiment were even true, this would be precisely the reason not to say anything and instead just STFU about it and not alert everyone and his brother as to what's going on. Had the OP not posted about it, none of us would even know.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"If you build it they will come" applies very strongly to money laundering conduits. Give organized crime and organized terrorism a good way to move large amounts of money and they will exploit it every time.

It's fashionable to think that the U.S. government is making a serious effort to attack online gambling but really they aren't. That will change very quickly if online poker is perceived as a true threat to national security. Washington will become deadly serious about money transfers and the poker sites will become so radioactive no one will do business with them.

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If this "sky is falling" sentiment were even true, this would be precisely the reason not to say anything and instead just STFU about it and not alert everyone and his brother as to what's going on. Had the OP not posted about it, none of us would even know.

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Wow Nick - you have just taken over from dumb. You are dumber

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

This [censored] happens all the time at ongame.

I cant tell you how many times I've seen private HUNL tables where the action is like this

Player 1 $20,000 in chips
Player 2 $200 in chips

Player 1 posts the sb $1
Player 2 posts the bb $2

Player 1 raises to $198
Player 2 calls $196

Flop: x x x

Player 2 Checks
Player 1 Bets $2
Player 2 Folds

Player 2 re-loads and repeat process from beginning.


I have pointed this out to support before on numerous occasions but they dont seem to be bothered about it.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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You guys really are a bunch of paranoid clowns. When is the last time OnGame raised its rake? When is the last time a chip dumping scam put a poker room out of business? Seriously, stop snitching. This chip dumping episode is going to have no bearing on your bottom line. Besides which, there are dozens of reasons to chip dump that aren't detrimental to a poker network.

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So you won't be whining on here one day if your account is hacked, promptly chip dumped, and cashed out by someone else?

Oh...and I look forward to your list of dozens of reason to chip dump $140,000 that aren't detrimental to a poker network.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

who the [censored] cares? seriously why would u care?

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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who the [censored] cares? seriously why would u care?

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Lets say you had quite a bit of money on an Ongame site, say $150k.

Now lets say that someone hacked your password/MSN/AIM or whatever and gained access to your account. They then proceed to dump all your money to another account and withdrawal it.

Wouldn't you like to know that if this occurred there is someone you could call or email that would sort it all out and hopefully get some or all of your money back?

Thats why we care...

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

If some of you (namely pokerstarsux and Nick Rivers) could muster a brain cell between youselves you could be dangerous. What a couple of planks.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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If some of you (namely pokerstarsux and Nick Rivers) could muster a brain cell between youselves you could be dangerous. What a couple of planks.

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QFT (IMO)

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

How hard is this to understand? Why should you and I care? Someone got their account hacked at that person took dumped $140,000 to another account. I'm not worried about that person withdrawing that money, but instead that that person takes that money to another short-handed table with guys he's working with mixed with genuine honest players, and proceeds to dump blindly. Even if only ~80k goes to the guys you're working with, that's a huge score. And if you make it look somewhat legit (ie dumping indescriminately, tons of PF raising, 3 betting, psycho-aggro) there is no way a site can figure out who's honest and who's not. And a site especially doesn't want to have to tell one of its high stake regs that he didn't win the $20,000 that he thought he just did because of fraud.

That's why all of this matters. More than likely someone got hacked, and if the hacker is intelligent at all, a scenario like this one could easily play out. In this case, something would need to be done immediately. What if it was you? HS players need to protect themselves...and any effort can help.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

I take it that those who believe in the "Stop Snitching" credo would have no problem living in a crime ridden neighborhood where many of the residents believe in the same thing.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

I am suprised people still play at Ongame. The site is notorious for locking up accounts. Even worse the support at Ongame is by far the worst in the poker world. The live support they offer is out sourced and the representatives have close to o authority. When there is any kind of major issue the support must then contact Ongame, Ongame then directs the email to the correct department. Then the email is sent back down the chain of command to support and finally back to you. Don't get me wrong, the software is great, but the business model is horrible.

Be very careful when you play at ongame.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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So you won't be whining on here one day if your account is hacked, promptly chip dumped, and cashed out by someone else?

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lol_hackers. Great argument. I'm sure you've been hacked repeatedly by chip dumpers, huh?

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Oh...and I look forward to your list of dozens of reason to chip dump $140,000 that aren't detrimental to a poker network.

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I chip dumped a [censored] of money back when PokesPoker was refusing to pay up. So did dozens of other people. As for other reasons, suppose my pal wanted to play at OnGame but he couldn't get money onto the site. Suppose he wanted to play high steaks, so he needed a lot of money to roll with. So I dump a ton of money to him and now the site is raking from me and my pal. Suppose the bonus at one OnGame skin is better than the bonus at another and, if I'm going to stick around at OnGame, I'm going to need a great bonus to entice me. I dump chips from one account to another (maybe because it's easier and cheaper than other methods), and that keeps me playing (and paying the rake) at OnGame. Or, since you're so fond of hacking scenarios, suppose my Neteller account got hacked, and I couldn't get my money back out of OnGame without a lot of rigamarole, but I wanted to keep playing there. I'd first want to secure an account with a new skin where I wouldn't have any trouble getting money in or out. So I dump myself a ton of money and then get right back to playing (and paying the rake) instead of waiting around for days or weeks to get my money out and then get it back in through some other avenue. I can do this all day, but I think you're starting to get the picture.

Your arguments are all pretty weak. Chip dumping happens at OnGame because, unlike sites such as Full Tilt, they don't allow large transfers between players. By your logic, all transfer capability at those sites should be shut down, because hackers or money launderers could abuse that and, in doing so, apparently bring down the entire sky and, with it, online poker industry.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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Your arguments are all pretty weak.

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It's not often I say stuff like this but your posts shows how ignorant you are.

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Suppose he wanted to play high steaks

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Is this like cow tipping?

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By your logic, all transfer capability at those sites should be shut down,

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This leaves a paper trail, a massive chip dump from a stolen credit card, hacked NT account, hacked player account or some other fraud often does not.

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So I dump a ton of money to him and now the site is raking from me and my pal.

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Count on both of your accounts getting locked while they investigate you.

You obviously have no concept how bad the fraud problems are in the industry. Also keep in mind a massive chip dump is part of what started the public investigations into Absolute's cheating scandal. I guess we all should have ignored that too?

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

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By your logic, all transfer capability at those sites should be shut down,

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This leaves a paper trail, a massive chip dump from a stolen credit card, hacked NT account, hacked player account or some other fraud often does not.

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Uh, how about someone hacks a Neteller account then does massive transfers at a site that allows it or uses a stolen credit card to fraudulently fund an account? This is absolutely no different than a chip dumping hax0r scam. If chip dumping is bad, then so is allowing transfers. They are effectively the same thing, and they have the same vulnerabilities. Anyone who can leave no paper trail when undertaking a chip dumping operation can also leave no paper trail when using transfers to scam players on a site or abuse the site for money laundering. Poker sites retain records of all transfers on file. They also retain all hand histories on file. Either way, they can see where money goes and where it came from, and anyone who can circumvent or obfuscate this in one case can do it in either case. You can make no rational argument for why chip dumping is worse for a site than transfer capabilities and, as such, if you believe in snitching out chip dumpers, you should also snitch out people who are posting records of their transfer deals on the relevant threads here at 2+2. There is no difference. Maybe they're hackers! Maybe they're money-laundering e-ninjas! Maybe they'll bring down the entire online poker industry!

Absurd.

Re: Massive $140,000 chip dump on Ongame
 

Nick, you are clueless if you don't see the difference. One is doing something out in the open, one is trying to do something underground. The latter is a common way fraudsters attempt to get money out of poker rooms. If you don't understand one day you will find your account locked somewhere for doing the same thing endless fraudsters have done.