Overpair Sandwich
 

Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
6 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (9SB, 3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, Hero ???

Reads: BB(8.2/6.5/5.0) Button(9.7/5.3/1.25)

Easy fold right ? Easy fold with QQ too? 3betting with KK,AA ? What are your oppinions ?

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

reads would help here, especially on BB and it would also be great to know what you think BB thinks of you. Levels.

edit: okay, so you got reads there now...these guys are tighties, even if Button is stealing, BB is not.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

if these stats are over medium+ samples (&gt;35) then I think it's a b/f or even c/f flop. our outs are not clean.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

I've posted reads, both players are tight. From what i've seen on this limit, BB thinks of me as player with two holecards. If he has reads on me it will be like 14/8/4.

My first intention on this flop was to check-raise. But...you see...
My main Question is on how to play here with QQ,KK,AA.

edit: Samplesize is about 130 reads.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

given reads, i dont think c/r is good

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

[ QUOTE ]
our outs are not clean.

[/ QUOTE ]
Outs ? Gutshot + two Jacks ? Even if all 6 outs are clean, this would be a fold.
And c/r is a good way of protecting and isolating on this drawy board, isn't it ?

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

I'm not sure what the right answer is, but here is what I am thinking

On this board, JJ is better than QQ because it gives you the gutshot draw, so you have 4-6 outs. Agreed BB probably has you beat but can you see the turn and draw profitably? i.e. does button possibly have two [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s (are 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] good)?

Black QQ against these tighties, I'd donk the flop and fold if it gets 3bet, since you then have 1-2 outs.

With KK I'd have to go ballistic on the flop, and get to showdown cheap/fold if things blow up on the turn with both opponents still in.

AA, play fast on the flop &amp; it is probably fated to showdown but there may be an inflection point later on where it's obvious you're dead.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

Think you should have lead the flop. As you didn't it's difficult to gage what you now face. It looks like you're beat, but it could be stealing gone wrong! I'd call.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

W/ the stats you show on villians, this seems like a pretty easy fold.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

bet the damn flop

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

babar what is BB's range when he caps

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet the damn flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, do you think they're going to check through? Is your hand good enough to 3bet vs. a raise?

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

I think I would have bet the flop and folded if it was three back to me. After checking the flop, you can't be sure whether Button is just making a play with a hand like AQ and hoping to fold out your AK. As played, you have up to six outs even if, as seems likely, you are behind. In practice your outs are probably less than this. I would call if it would close the betting but I have a feeling this flop is going to be capped, so I fold.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
our outs are not clean.

[/ QUOTE ]
Outs ? Gutshot + two Jacks ? Even if all 6 outs are clean, this would be a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because if your GS hits, you'll be able to collect extra bets.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

lol buzz you say bet the flop in your post but then in my post it's wrong? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

i suggested checking the flop too. but you didn't answer my question is the point. you say it emphatically like we are always ahead. We are always getting raised by a better hand you see.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

i want to bet and see what happens, not check and see what happens. i think we get better info if we bet and it's 2 back to us, than if we check and it's two back to us. i'm not saying we're always ahead at all.

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

ok now answer my range question[/nit]

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

you're asking me what an unknown caps pf?

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think we get better info if we bet and it's 2 back to us, than if we check and it's two back to us

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you doing with that info? Making the pot bigger so you can fold?

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reads: BB(8.2/6.5/5.0) Button(9.7/5.3/1.25)

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
you're asking me what an unknown caps pf?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

Button(9.7/5.3/1.25) ... this guy doesn't steal (ever)
+
BB(8.2/6.5/5.0)

= I don't 3bet preflop (this isn't a steal situation, ever ... and bb is unlikely to come along ... being OOP, I would much rather keep the pot small and play the flop)

I generally feel it's not the best idea to push around a tight ass rock
you're either 50/50, crushed or ahead of what Tens and maybe Nines.

as played ...
either bet/call-1 on the flop (a cheese way to to hopefully see the turn for only 2 bets)
or
check fold (probably the best play here ... as the flop is going to be capped)

Re: Overpair Sandwich
 

[ QUOTE ]
edit: Samplesize is about 130 reads.

[/ QUOTE ]
Damn, that's a lotta reads.