Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

This is a hand that a friend of mine (BulldogMafia) was involved in and it brought up some interesting questions about how to play this hand and big draws in general. I'll hold off on our opinions until there is some feedback.

This is a $20/180 with about 20 players left. Assume no reads (he didn't give me any).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (7 handed)

Hero (t12234)
BB (t7041)
UTG (t7150)
MP1 (t9554)
MP2 (t19833)
CO (t31417)
Button (t14175)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t1200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t1200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t4650) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>


Some of the questions that came up as we were discussing it:

1. Do we want a call or do we want a fold? This is a question specific to this hand, but also big draws in general.

2. What hands are we putting UTG and CO on?

3. What is the best line here based on #1 &amp; #2?

4. Is there a case for folding pre-flop?

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

fold pre

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

you fold pre getting 8 to 1? wow, you are tight.

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

I'll give it a shot.

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t1200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t1200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t4650) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>


Some of the questions that came up as we were discussing it:

1. Do we want a call or do we want a fold? This is a question specific to this hand, but also big draws in general.

[/ QUOTE ]
Does it matter?
[ QUOTE ]
2. What hands are we putting UTG and CO on?

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This really depends on the player, but in general in a 20$ MTT, I would guess that we have to include a pretty big range. Obv not saying that this is a good range.

UTG: 22-TT, A8-AQ, A5s-AJs, KTs+, KQ, 87s-QJs and &lt;5% KK+.
CO: 22-99, A6-AQ, A2s-ATs, K9s+, KT+, QTs, 76s-QJs
[ QUOTE ]
3. What is the best line here based on #1 &amp; #2?

[/ QUOTE ]
If your opponents are agressive, I like a CRAI here, since that would be about correct given the pot and your stack, and also gives you some FE.

Another option is to bet about 3000, and push any non-pairing turn. I would call a raise AI on the flop, since your draw is huuuuge, and you are ahead of about any hand in their range, except a higher FD or a flopped straight.

[ QUOTE ]
4. Is there a case for folding pre-flop?

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I think a fold is fine, given that you can get in problem if you flop top pair. I think there are reversed implied odds working here. I usually call hee though, cause they are soooooooted, but I think that is a leak I have.

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

On to the hand
1. We want some action but if we can get some action with no showdown that is better.
2. UTG: 55+,AT+,KQ CO 22+,AT+,KT+,QJ
3. I default check-raise here. We don't mind being all-in at all, and almost no way this checks around.
4. Never

Cheers!
John

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
you fold pre getting 8 to 1? wow, you are tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

with a crappy hand, with only 10 BB with a hand thats only any good if a flop exactly like this or 2 pair+ hits? yes

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

TimberBee, I think your UTG range is too wide. I don't see him limping with deuces in that spot. He's desperate so limping indicates a big hand if he's a solid player.

I see a flop here too, but folding is certainly good as well.

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

huge leak if you fold PF here
Edit: tons of exaggeration

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
huge leak if you fold PF here
Edit: tons of exaggeration

[/ QUOTE ]

i think its a huge leak if youre completing crap with only 10 BB.

Re: Interesting Draw with situational questions
 

I'd crai, but I can't make a case for it... I'd just do it.