Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

open smaller with him in the blinds, fold to his shoves with everything but premiums. ez

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
who the f is this kant78 shortstacker guy at 400nl, i swear to go i didn't win one flip against him today

[/ QUOTE ]

hes just another pathetic soul too dumb to play real poker so has to eke out a miserable existence playing the push or fold retardo version.

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

i don't understand this newfound struggle with shortstackers. They are so easy to beat. The reason they continue to make money is cause people hate laying down AJs or TT to 20 blinds. The 600nl shortstackers always either fold or shove, so implied odds are completely out of the equation. So playing against these guys is just regular math. If you see a guy who's 7/7/inf, all you have to do is call with like top 3.5% hands like AA-JJ AKs and AK. Stay ahead of range and profit.

Edit: Adjust range if you were original raiser. If you open for 3.5xbb and he shoves for 20 big blinds, you're getting 1.4:1 (58/42) on your money so you call with 58% of his range (7.2vpip x 0.58) = call with top 4%. Also account for dead money: Blinds, calls behind original raise, etc have a larger affect here because pots are so small. (Above formula with blinds + one folded raise included = 1.7:1 on money = 64/36 = 7.2 * 0.64 = 4.6%)

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

i think that part of the problem is that i moved up to get away from these guys and there are 2 shortstackers on each of my table, sigh i guess that just puts me on tilt

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't understand this newfound struggle with shortstackers. They are so easy to beat. The reason they continue to make money is cause people hate laying down AJs or TT to 20 blinds. The 600nl shortstackers always either fold or shove, so implied odds are completely out of the equation. So playing against these guys is just regular math. If you see a guy who's 7/7/inf, all you have to do is call with like top 3.5% hands like AA-JJ AKs and AK. Stay ahead of range and profit

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely dont struggle against shortstackers in that sense, what pisses me off about them is the fact that they keep taking little bites out of the big fish and a lot of the time the fish just leave out of frustration. i have seen on numerous occasions the mark at the table openly sledge the ratholer(s), and then say something to the effect of "fk it, im outta here". very very annoying.

i welcome any discussion that will help more people learn how to destroy shortstackers, i hate them oh so much.

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't understand this newfound struggle with shortstackers. They are so easy to beat. The reason they continue to make money is cause people hate laying down AJs or TT to 20 blinds. The 600nl shortstackers always either fold or shove, so implied odds are completely out of the equation. So playing against these guys is just regular math. If you see a guy who's 7/7/inf, all you have to do is call with like top 3.5% hands like AA-JJ AKs and AK. Stay ahead of range and profit

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know what you mean. I actually consider myself pretty tight towards the shoties, but others arent. If more and more would adjust accordingly to the shotstacks, their profit margin would drop significantly and they might leave.

And I know that a lot of the full stacking regs read this thread, so Im hoping that they might improve against guys like slAlaton.

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

fitnessfreak, completely agreed. I however, cannot blame them for their style. It IS a winning style because it is HUGELY +ev against fish, slightly +ev against regulars, and only -ev against GOOD regulars. Good shortstackers also know how to play against other shortstackers, which alone account for probably greater than 20% of all players.

The biggest problem is their disruption to the game. On no other site are shortstackers a problem because the sites recognize the integrity of the games are being compromised. Less fun to play, for regulars and recreational players. Party hasn't instituted a time limit for cashing out/in off a table, because creative shortstackers will just use multiple accounts. Whatever, i think thats just a lazy attitude. At least then we'd only be left with creative shortstackers who risk getting their accounts frozen. I also think party has been reluctant to up the min buyin because they are afraid of scaring off recreational players, but really i think they're shooting themselves in the foot. Most msnl and hsnl shortstackers are regulars, not recreational players.

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
fitnessfreak, completely agreed. I however, cannot blame them for their style. It IS a winning style because it is HUGELY +ev against fish, slightly +ev against regulars, and only -ev against GOOD regulars. Good shortstackers also know how to play against other shortstackers, which alone account for probably greater than 20% of all players.

The biggest problem is their disruption to the game. On no other site are shortstackers a problem because the sites recognize the integrity of the games are being compromised. Less fun to play, for regulars and recreational players. Party hasn't instituted a time limit for cashing out/in off a table, because creative shortstackers will just use multiple accounts. Whatever, i think thats just a lazy attitude. At least then we'd only be left with creative shortstackers who risk getting their accounts frozen. I also think party has been reluctant to up the min buyin because they are afraid of scaring off recreational players, but really i think they're shooting themselves in the foot. Most msnl and hsnl shortstackers are regulars, not recreational players.

[/ QUOTE ]

very true. Im surprised the onyourbike-guy hasnt rushed in to rant some by now...

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

it certainly gives a lot of action, i would think some people like it - lots of allins

Re: Official Party Regulars Thread
 

All I do for beating shortstacks:

1. Open for less from steal positions when they're behind you
2. Open less hands from steal positions when they're behind you
3. Look through PT, find an approximate shoving range depending on how tight each one of them is and work out what you should be calling with using PokerStove
4. Use the ATSB stat A LOT and recognise when to shove a lot of hands over their blind steals

All just common sense really, but I'm up money against every regular ratholer in the Party/FTP games except Grimmstar who just runs like jesus against me. It's nothing revolutionary, but I see far too many regs making really stupid mistakes and "spite calls" against them which is is just inflating their winrates too much.