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-   -   QQ in stars 1k early on. (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=504098)

gobboboy 09-18-2007 08:30 PM

QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG (t3740)
UTG+1 (t3400)
gobbo (t2850)
MP2 (t2750)
MP3 (t4565)
CO (t3920)
Button (t2690)
SB (t1040)
BB (t2055)

Preflop: gobbo is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">gobbo raises to t90</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t195) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, gobbo checks.

Turn: (t195) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">gobbo bets t120</font>, BB calls t120.

River: (t435) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">gobbo bets t330</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t1845</font>

On the turn before I bet but after he checked, villain said :

grubisic24: WEEEEEEEEEEE
grubisic24: 281
grubisic24: in limit

Referencing the WCOOP. I raised over his limp before with JJ and he check/folded the 873r flop after tanking for 10-15 secs.

Comments on all streets are appreciated. Hero call the river?

EDIT: Also if you're folding the river, what is the worst hand you call with?

Bond18 09-18-2007 08:34 PM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
Flop/turn look good. So does river assuming you folded.

bigbabyjesus 09-18-2007 08:57 PM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
Calling this river would be a huge spew.. I don't see this as a bluff very much.

I am not sure what my minimum calling hand is. I suppose kings up as he might do this with some random two pair (his comment about the wcoop makes me think he's a donk,) but even calling with KT here feels like a losing call.

Mench 09-18-2007 10:05 PM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
i like this line and def fold river.
min calling range is probably TTT as I think this is a set/flush everytime.

Played a hand similar to this in a 109, vb river with KT on a simlar board, except the flush draw turned and he crai. I called off getting 3-1 to his flush.

yaaam1484 09-18-2007 10:28 PM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
Easy fold early on even though you see people make crazy plays like that with JJ etc.

I'd call with J high flush, high VPIP =&gt; 9 high

If VPIP is high and his WSDW% is low based on bad showdowns (i.e he think mediocre hands are really good, like K3 in that spot) I'd call with K7+. 23 is really more likely than K3 since he's checking flop and turn, but if he doesn't have a flush it's not likely he will play 23 since a non-flush shove is really bad and I believe a bad player will fold 23 pre flop.

TheNewf 09-18-2007 10:37 PM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
fold for sure... I think the river bet is really thin to begin with and don't think you're missing much by checking behind, especially if you think there's a chance he could be bluffing here, though I imagine the fact that you're gobbo makes betting a lot better.

sirio11 09-18-2007 11:09 PM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
I like your line and about the river:

Unless he knows you value-bet/bluff a lot the river, I find his line pretty weird for a hand that has you beat.

Of course he could also be one of those players who think the greatest thing in poker is to check raise and live and play just to find a chance to do it.

Well, I find the river raise weird and suspicious

Eagles 09-19-2007 02:32 AM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
FWIW I really like villains line here whether its a bluff or value.

Ansky 09-19-2007 02:51 AM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
all fine and good, just fold riv.

calling would be pretty brutal.

mrjetguy 09-19-2007 07:23 AM

Re: QQ in stars 1k early on.
 
I don't see how you could call the river, what do we put him on that takes this line? Yeah, it could be a complicated bluff line that he decided to take from the start but this isn't true often enough to call here.


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