Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

Story 1: Little Criminals

To quote Elton John: "Saturday night is all right for fighting." So I must be playing 3/6 full kill O/8 at Commerce.

Two regulars are added to my table. These two are husband and wife. He is a nice guy, but an ex-dealer, plays O/8 a lot and isn't a source of $ on the table. His wife gets things off on the wrong foot when she insists on a certain seat over the heated request from one of our foreign grandmotherly types who is usually good for 2-3 racks. Grannie is overruled and leaves CRYING. Bad start.

Later I am in an unmemorable hand and by the river I am in the middle of the husband and wife. Husband bets out. Wife is on my immediate left. I am looking down rechecking my cards and what do I see? I see the little woman with her right hand separate 12 chips and move them forward literally right under my nose. The threat is clear to me, bet and you are facing my raise. I call anyway. She FOLDS. I SCOOP. I think this was clear but subtle collusion. I don't think anyone else saw her move. You make the call.

As I was leaving, (the table was in the middle of a typical O/8 blowup) I tried talking to husband about the issue straight up and private. Got a smiling blow off.

So Sunday, I am finishing up my 4/8 session and walk back to the O/8 area. My Little Criminals are not home. I speak to the floorman, Terry, who knows me and knows I am a problem solver, not a problem maker and simpy report what I encountered. Terry admits there isn't much she can do and I agree. I simply wanted to alert management and suggest that these two be separated whenever possible.

Any other suggestions?

Story Two: Perfect Timing

Sunday 4/8 with about 20 minutes to go before the 2X JP time runs out, we get a new player.

(WARNING: STEREOTYPES ABOUND IN THE FOLLOWING TALE. IF YOU FIND THEM DISTURBING, EXERCISE YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT NOT TO READ! BY CONTINUING TO READ, YOUR CONSENT TO BEING EXPOSED TO STEREOTYPES WILL BE ASSUMED!!)

On my immediate right is seated a 30-ish stereotypical gold chain, open shirt, too much chest hair, thinning on top wild and crazy Eastern European accent kind of guy who wants to maniac up our table. For 10 minutes, his complaints are typical: "My cards suk, etc." I explain that I why I moved out of that seat. Actually, when the seat on my left opens I almost always slide to the left so that if someone like this guy is next in line, I get him on my right, not my left.

Not suprisingly about 10 minutes before the end of the 2X JP period, he asks for a setup. I ask that he wait just 10 minutes. He insists and calls the floorman. The vote at the table is 7 to 1 against the setup right away. Floorman backs the majority.

Now the guy won't give it up. He is yelling for a setup every 10 seconds. It escalates into two explicative filled episodes.

I make one last attempt to reason with the guy. I explain that he is now disrespecting not only the table, but the floorman who has already ruled on his request. He prefers to create a typical testasterone fest. His responses were classic. "I can buy and sell you. What kind of car you drive? Mine is nicer!" I look at the black guy on my left and say: "This is classic. Maybe we should just all whip ours out and see whose is biggest?"
Black guy: "Man, I HATE this kind of *hit." Absolutely 100% classic.

Meanwhile, we are playing poker and wild and crazy guy is maniacing up every hand. Most hands are seeing 4-6 people seeing capped PF hands. Maniac gets hit and is fairly short stacked but is still talking trash.

Next hand, I am on the Button (I am down about about 1 1/2 racks)and look down, joy of joys, I see AA. Come on boys, CAP IT UP!!! I get 6 people in capped PF and wild and crazy guy is now all in.

Flop is A(!!!)T2 with 2 hearts. Up we go and the number of sidepots continues to grow. Turn, NO HEART. Keep it going! River pairs the dueces! Go ahead, beat me, please!! But I just settle for the win, especially as the wild and crazy guys shows KK!!

I tip the dealer excessively and thank her for her "PERFECT TIMING."

It's not long before our wild and crazy guy decides that blackjack would be more fun for him!

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

i love commerce! LA's friendliest casino!

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

[ QUOTE ]
On my immediate right is seated a 30-ish stereotypical gold chain, open shirt, too much chest hair, thinning on top wild and crazy Eastern European accent kind of guy who wants to maniac up our table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like a real ladies man. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On my immediate right is seated a 30-ish stereotypical gold chain, open shirt, too much chest hair, thinning on top wild and crazy Eastern European accent kind of guy who wants to maniac up our table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like a real ladies man. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the guy on his left. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

As for Story 1, I can't really say...if that is the only thing you saw, then no, I don't think that is collusion. If there were alot of other unmentioned things then maybe so.

My wife and I both play poker and we often end up at the same low limit table which is fine but -EV for us. While I enjoy playing with her, she plays 2+2 SSHE style as do I. Contrary to the average $4/8 players beliefs, having my wife there is not +EV. I want a table full of donkeys who see every single flop. It is very rare for my wife and I to go past the flop when we are both in the hand....not because we are colluding but because the flop that hit me often misses her. We've been accused of colluding two times and I've heard grumbles a couple times before. What these morons don't realize is, I play her harder than the fish.

Example: I raise PF with pocket 10's. I flop a set on a rainbow board and check. She leads out, one caller, I call. Turn in a blank, she bets, other player drops out and I check-raise her. The dealer and half the table go wild laughing. She jokingly gives me a dirty look and calls. River is a blank, I bet, she raises, I re-raise, she calls and I turn over a flopped set to her KK for an over pair. I rake the pot and have that same joy that you have when you bust your buddy in a big hand.

15 minutes later we haven't played a hand together again and we are accused of colluding by 50+ year old woman who is a regular nit and plays at the table with her husband about 30% of the time. The dealer laughs and says she doesn't think we're colluding but quietly says "she'll keep an eye on us". 5 minutes later regular nit is down another rack and neither my wife nor I have played a hand. She again accuses us of colluding but this time says we are also colluding with a fishy tourist husband and wife team that we've never met before they just sat down. Finally the dealer says "did you not just see him trap his wife for a check raise, then hammer her on the river???? They aren't colluding." Nit says she's going to have to talk to the floor because "she's a regular and they know her" They also laugh her off. I found alot of the exact conversation out after the fact because I'd heard enough whispers to know what was going on and I asked the dealer when I ran into her while she was off work at another casino. I also talked to the floor and they said not to worry about it because she was always blaming someone for something.

My point is, I know colluding goes on but don't assume just because you saw one little thing that they are colluding. In most cases the husband/wife duo aren't smart enough to collude. Again, you might have seen alot more but you didn't include it in your OP. Having been on the "accused" end just because my wife is at the table, I know how stupid some of the accusations can be.

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

A) The husband is an ex-dealer and knows all the tricks.
B) Neither are 2+2'ers, they are in almost every hand.
C) They had no choice but to play together this time, this was the only opening at O/8.
D) I've seen them "mess" with each, but NOT go after each other, particularly at O/8 where split pots get involved.
E) While they may not have PLANNED to act in concert, the wife's choice to flash me a raise sign BEFORE I acted was a deliberate choice made by someone who very wells knows the rules about acting out of turn. It was no accident that the right number of chips was separated from her stack and placed deliberately in my line of sight instead of anywhere else. She slid her chips to the right, TOWARDS me, to bring them into my line of sight. I've sat at her table for 100's of hands and have never seen that move. I admit that I do not know if these two back each other up in other ways, but I have no explanation other than this was a deliberate move on her part (maybe alone?) to intimidate my response to her husband's bet. Lucky, do you really think this conduct is appropriate? And, I did try and point it out privately and got blown off without any explanation or straight answer either. I did give them a real chance to explain things in a calm conversation because, until that hand, we had always gotten along well.

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

The last time someone tried the "grab a stack of chips to imply a raise is coming" stunt I very loudly, but politely, said "excuse me miss but you are about to bet out of turn".

People who pull that kind of play usually don't like the attention.

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

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a typical O/8 blowup

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What is it about this game that turns people into raging [censored]?

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

the constant, never-ending, terribly nasty suckouts

Re: Ah, Commerce. Two tales: Little Criminals & Perfect Timing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a typical O/8 blowup

[/ QUOTE ]

What is it about this game that turns people into raging [censored]?

[/ QUOTE ]

Turn Nut-Nut becomes River [censored] - [censored]