Going After The Table Jackass,
 

GOing to have to type this question out without a hand history; playing at Cake Poker right now.

Anyway, here's the deal. I'm stuck four seats to the right of a table jackass. You know the ones; they play like effing maniacs and somehow manage to pull 3-4 times the biggest stack at the table because they are so unpredictable and willing to shove in at any hand. Example: came into a x5 raise with Q4s, then shoved with midpair and gutshot draw.

Cake, .50/1 NL. Full ring. Mid position with $60. Table image, most likely is TAG, despite no PT/HUD, etc. Jackass has plenty.

Dealt AKo from MP. No limpers from EP. I raise x4.5. Jackass, on the button, calls. SB and BB drop.

Flop comes 10, 9, 4 all of spades. I have the A spade in hand.

I continue bet x6, he shoves all in for 150+. Just him and me. Pot is at x14, but I've got two overcards and nut flush draw. Do you go for it?

And while I'm on the topic, what if you hit an open ended straight draw and have the same thing happen? I'm not sure which is better odds (can't think right now).

Thanks!

Re: Going After The Table Jackass,
 

You have 9 outs in a flush draw while you have 8 outs in an open ended straight draw.

It would be tempting to go ahead and go all in on a flush or straight draw against a jackass because you have to figure that if you hit it, you beat the jackass.

But don't go on tilt and look at the situation from a mathmatical standpoint.

Re: Going After The Table Jackass,
 

Correct me if im wrong..

pot is +.5 +1 +4.5 +4.5 +6 = 16.5BB so $16.5

you had $60 - $10.5 already in the pot

your call is $49.5 to win $66 ($16.5 pot + effective bet from villain $49.5)

from his crazy playing we have to assume his range is very wide and knowing you are playing TAG he may feel he can make you lay the hand down. He can be doing this with Bottom pair/mid pair/2 overs/bluff. I really dont see him doing this with a made hand like a set or 2 pair.

you have potentially 9 outs for the flush and 6 outs for the 2 overs. thats 15 outs which is about 54%. With the money invested and the fact that you also could be ahead anyway ie QJ,KQ,AQ i would call.

Re: Going After The Table Jackass,
 

I forgot about the two overs aspect of figuring the outs.

Re: Going After The Table Jackass,
 

If I see someone like that before I even get into a hand with them I try and size up just how crazy they are and what I will do if I get put into a position like this.

If they are playing crazy smart, ie very aggressively but with an understanding of how the game is normally played and using the crazy to their advantage, then I tend to trap and not go so much for draws. Wait till I get a great hand and let them bet into me.

If they are just crazy on the other hand, like this guys sounds, I am much more apt to go for a draw as not only do I have draw outs but a very good chance of simply having the best hand to begin with.

In this situation it sounds as if this guy has very little understanding of optimal play and isn't using his crazy as an advantage but simply he's just plain crazy and looking for the rush instead of the win. I'd most likely make the call.

Re: Going After The Table Jackass,
 

Missed the draw, and he flipped over 107s. Oh, well.

Re: Going After The Table Jackass,
 

Total pot of $66 with $49.50 to call. So your pot odds are 1:1.33, 44%~.

You have 9 outs to a flush, 3 outs to aces, 2 outs to kings (Ks is counted in flush outs). Total of 14 outs.

Chance of improving = 14/47 + (33/47)*(14/46) = 51%~

Even against a tight range assuming he is pushing 99+, 44, and AQ+ you have 58% equity so I'd probably call here against a normal tight player, against a maniac like this I call all the time.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

142,560 games 0.047 secs 3,033,191 games/sec

Board: Ts 9s 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.165% 51.74% 06.42% 73767 9153.00 { AsKc, AsKd, AsKh }
Hand 1: 41.835% 35.41% 06.42% 50487 9153.00 { 99+, 44, AQs+, AQo+ }

Re: Going After The Table Jackass,
 

If this was broadcast on the WPT, Mike Sexton would be saying "Look at that Vince, Pantsonfire actually beat him into the pot with that call".