$30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

after the flop i was pretty sure i was playing for 1/4...

no real reads... who plays it different?

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $30/$60
7 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (7 players) hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.5SB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO caps</font>, hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (10.25BB, 3 players)
hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, CO calls, hero calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (13.25BB, 3 players)
hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, CO calls, hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 16.25BB

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

Hi Dave - UTG evidently reads both you and CO for the nut low because of the way you played on the first two betting rounds. UTG probably has a straight and I'm guessing you and CO quartered each other for low.

I think the jamming on the second betting round was a bit much. Now you're stuck for two more big bets because you'll show less of a loss by staying than by folding.

Buzz

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

I think once MP1 folds and makes it three remaining a call of the flop raise is in order. The PF jamming was probably enough to keep our heads above water.

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

give up dave just give up.....

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Dave - UTG evidently reads both you and CO for the nut low because of the way you played on the first two betting rounds. UTG probably has a straight and I'm guessing you and CO quartered each other for low.

I think the jamming on the second betting round was a bit much. Now you're stuck for two more big bets because you'll show less of a loss by staying than by folding.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

tough to not lead on this sort of flop with AA2, but I guess the 3-bet might be a spew... what line are you advocating here?

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

i play it the same but i check raise the turn if re raised then just call, if checked on turn obv fire on river.....you gave up too soon on it bro, missed atleast 1 bet

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

omg u have a flush draw too wow your a nit

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
omg u have a flush draw too wow your a nit

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. I was going to postpone results a little longer, but here are the actual hands/EVs on the turn. Ended up being an ultra-cooler. I was in 2nd place on the flop, but fell behind to 3rd place on the turn... really sick. I'm still open for pre-flop/flop/turn discussions... I can't see any other line except check-call on the river. I'm proud of myself for not losing additional money on this one, as played.

Omaha Hi: 36 enumerated boards containing 6s 5s 7c 4h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8s 9c Ad 2d 26 72.22 10 27.78 0 0.00 0.722
4c 2c Ah 7h 4 11.11 32 88.89 0 0.00 0.111
As 2s Ac 8c 6 16.67 30 83.33 0 0.00 0.167

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

Well played, just be glad the other A2 didn't "make a move" with his second best high. Certainly that would be a danger in the 30/60 on Stars.

gl

bdd

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, CO raises, hero 3-bets, UTG calls, CO caps, hero calls, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Dave - I like the lead on the second betting round. But you're swinging your bat ahead of the ball. In other words, your timing for whipsawing is off.

Either CO or UTG could have the same nut low as you, or either of them could have the second nut low draw (or worse). There's no realistic way to knock out someone who also has the nut low. And while you'd like to at least make it expensive for someone with the second nut low, it's one round too early.

[ QUOTE ]
what line are you advocating here?

[/ QUOTE ]Considering this particular situation, I'd just call the raise on the second betting round.

It might not make much difference this particular time. But I'm sure you agree that you don't generally want to back yourself into a position where you lose the initiative and you're check/calling the last two betting rounds. With your cards, you want to somehow be the one in command, to bet or raise and make it tough on your opponents. But you lost that, partly because of the cards your opponents held, partly because of the turn card, partly because of the too early jamming combined with the pre-flop raise, and partly because UTG is good enough that you ended up allowing him/her to get a good enough read to seize the initiative.

At least that's how it looks from the rail.

Buzz

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

ya but think how glorious a river spades wouldve been and you muck both of them (a36x, xx68).......i like check raise turn....obv when you miss check call river no equity in raising river

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
think how glorious a river spades wouldve been

[/ QUOTE ]True, but after the flop, on the second betting round, the odds are approximately 34 to 1 against two running, non-pairing, spades.
(from 962 to 28).

And then he also has a back-door draw in clubs, making it about 17 to 1 against either two running clubs or two running spades.

I originally posted in haste, and then as I was driving down the hill realized my mistake. Funny how that happens - I was consciously thinking about where I was going and then it dawned on me, seemingly out of nowhere, that I had made a mistake - actually two mistakes. Anyhow they're corrected now. Sorry for my errors.

Thanks, Tilt Monkey - you caught one of them.

At any rate, even two back door flush draws don't justify jamming on the second betting round, in my humble opinion, although they are nice and add to the value of your post-flop hand.

Buzz

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

yea you are kinda missing the point yet again....1st of all board pairing on turn or river is not a bad card....2ndly the odds of a spades falling on river (after turn) i believe i called a flush draw and in poker when you hit it its usually pretty strong....spelling it out for ya enuf? hes strong enough here to check raise turn for sure buzz....trust me i know how soft these games are...

-jaja

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

He aslo has a runner-runner club flush draw on the flop.

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
yea you are kinda missing the point yet again....1st of all board pairing on turn or river is not a bad card....2ndly the odds of a spades falling on river (after turn) i believe i called a flush draw and in poker when you hit it its usually pretty strong....spelling it out for ya enuf? hes strong enough here to check raise turn for sure buzz....trust me i know how soft these games are...

-jaja

[/ QUOTE ]

Buzz is too much of a gentleman to respond appropriately, so I will.

Cut the [censored] with the condescending remarks to him. He is the best poster in this forum by far, and contributes way more to this forum than it appears you ever will.

If you can't act like something remotely resembling a gentleman to other posters, particularly him, then go away.

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

"trust me i know how soft these games are"...

1) Buzz knows more about Omaha8 than anyone I've ever shared ideas with.
2) If the game is soft we win more by playing tight than by turning into Splashy McStation. If OP bets out at the turn he's getting raised by made straights, thereby charging himself more while still on a draw. If he c/r's on a draw with three players in after a villain capped the flop he's begging to be quartered when the flush misses.
3) Humility is a beautiful thing. Ponder that before attacking others who have a great deal of knowledge and are kind enough to share ideas with you.

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

PS I will "spell it out for ya" -- Buzz is talking about the second betting round, which is the flop ... not the turn, which it appears you are discussing. In poker, the turn would be the third betting round.

If you are suggesting that it is correct for dave to go nuts on this flop, then your advice is terrible.

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

stfu [censored] never talk to jaja like that PM me so i can play you heads up for your roll.......please PM me, also buzz i believe you said private squabbles are to be PMed why did you allow them to say this to me?????when you have deleted mine before......also im not being condescending to buzz the part where i say spelling it out for ya? is between me and him you would not understand. im stating my own opinion its a forum and people are going to disagree.....your too narrow minded to see this i guess, #1 you have no idea who you are talking to #2 WHO ARE YOU
#3 buzz is a joke #4 SMD [censored] #5 [censored] pwns

Re: $30/$60, AA2s 3-way, coordinated flop
 

IP Ban?