NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

Villain was 65/41/2.5 over 40ish hands, I was about 18/15/3.

He min 3bet me earlier, I 4 bet with AK, and he folded to a flop c-bet on a J high flop. He's been making big bluffs and overbets with air and strong hands alike.


Relatively simple question. Vbet the turn or check behind for pot control and to induce on river?

Party Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $95.68
Hero (BTN): $165.21
SB: $106.55
BB: $152.74
UTG: $102.55
MP: $48.20

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $7</font>, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($14.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $9.50</font>, BB calls $9.50

Turn: ($33.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero ???

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

if he has high river aggression i dont mind checking to induce a river bluff. but id probably just lead out again as a default line. TPTK vs donk so i bet for value.

given the recent aggression between you two i dont mind checking because id say hed lead 90% of the rivers here

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

Value bet, and I'm folding to a raise. Also value betting the river.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

Check turn for pot control and let him lead the river

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

pot control against what? KJ?

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
pot control against what? KJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

its not a bad line, also if i bet the turn here there is no way i fold to this LAG. if you are bet folding here then you should check behind because hes aggro enough to jam up lots of hands here that we beat im going to assume

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

1 more on flop
bet turn

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

i b/c like crazy here

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

I'm betting here again and calling a raise. I'm probably also betting most rivers if checked to, AJ is the nuts vs this guy.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

I would definitely check turn here and let him bluff river. If he doesn't bet river then put a value bet in.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

I prob bet/fold (because of hand total), maybe bet/call. Def. bet in any event.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

I'm not a fan of all this checking / letting him bluff. This isn't the way to beat lags, they key to beating lags at 6-max isn't to wait for good hands, that'll get you nowhere, you need to be out there playing back at them when you have hands/good draws.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

Hero bets $21.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

Against a tricky opponent, b/f is not a great option with TPTK. We don't want to commit a large portion of our stack, but at the same time, we want to value bet. We just hate being raised. I'd say bet/check 60/40 percent of the time.

I'd actually check here to unbalance this opponent.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

b/f is terrible vs. this donk. he's 65/41 ffs.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
b/f is terrible vs. this donk. he's 65/41 ffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 40 hands.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
b/f is terrible vs. this donk. he's 65/41 ffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 40 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

so weve seen him play 26 hands in 30 mins and 19 of those he has raised pf.

thats kinda LAG imo, its not like seeing someone as a nit because they are 10/7 over 88 hands. no way hes on a 40 hand heater.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

I'm sure he's almost definitely LAG. We can't say he's so LAG that this is a trivially easy b/c without even considering anything else though, IMO.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
b/f is terrible vs. this donk. he's 65/41 ffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 40 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

so weve seen him play 26 hands in 30 mins and 19 of those he has raised pf.

thats kinda LAG imo, its not like seeing someone as a nit because they are 10/7 over 88 hands. no way hes on a 40 hand heater.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

Bet-call is fine. Like I said I bet-fold here, and I have my reasons, but bet-call is obv fine at least in theory if not in practice.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

this guy is not a lag, he's a donk

we bet because donks do all kinds of terrible things here, such as:
1) calling with worse
2) shoving with worse

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

I should have added that as maniacal as his stats suggest, he definitely knows where the fold button is, and would probably muck a T here to a turn bet. He would also pounce on weakness, so I was pretty sure he'd bet the river if I checked.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
I should have added that as maniacal as his stats suggest, he definitely knows where the fold button is, and would probably muck a T here to a turn bet. He would also pounce on weakness, so I was pretty sure he'd bet the river if I checked.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the turn were a 5 this fact would be more relevant

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

bet pot or overbet flop he's calling with much worse. b/f or b/c turn.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

check for pot control given the depth of stacks. if he is willing to get it in here i dont feel we are good too often

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

Bet/ call turn and stack his QJo pls.

Also, against this type of player i think you should consider betting more on the flop purely for value.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

The right term for Villain is "maniac".

Against a maniac you play TPTK as the nuts, unless the board is a whole lot uglier than this one. Bet pot on each street, get the money in at any point, forget "pot control", forget "inducing", forget all that other crap.

Sure you will lose sometimes, but if you aren't willing to risk your stack here, go play limit or something.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
The right term for Villain is "maniac".

Against a maniac you play TPTK as the nuts, unless the board is a whole lot uglier than this one. Bet pot on each street, get the money in at any point, forget "pot control", forget "inducing", forget all that other crap.

Sure you will lose sometimes, but if you aren't willing to risk your stack here, go play limit or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

yah this is perfect.

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

4b preflop, bet the turn

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

22 on river for value

Re: NL100: AJs in rr pot against uber-LAG
 

aiy, bet the turn against this guy, i can't find a fold with his stats either