KK in position and deep
 

LAG opens to $60 UTG+1

I make it $150 w/ black KK.

SB who is very good cold calls, which pisses me off b/c I have no idea what his range is b/c I know he thinks i'm tight/weak and it prices in UTG+1 w/ a lot more hands.

SB had $4400 to start, I cover, and UTG+1 about $3400-ish.

Flop

Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

both check to me i bet $300

SB calls, UTG+1 raises to $900.

Remember I have the K of [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Fold push or call and is it even close?

If you raise, how much and why?

If you call, what do you do if a spade falls?

What if a non spade J comes on the turn and it's checked to you?

And if you vote for folding on the flop, what hands do you call with?

Re: KK in position and deep
 

reraise bigger preflop...im assuming this is 10-20

i'm definately not folding this flop either. i like to call and let him shove into me on turn

Re: KK in position and deep
 

your preflop action is completely retarded

it looks like you're smoked on the flop...the guy check raised like half the pot oop with two other people in the hand, calling a bet on the flop

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
your preflop action is completely retarded

it looks like you're smoked on the flop...the guy check raised like half the pot oop with two other people in the hand, calling a bet on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
your preflop action is completely retarded

it looks like you're smoked on the flop...the guy check raised like half the pot oop with two other people in the hand, calling a bet on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

You answered the first problem already:
SB who is very good cold calls, which pisses me off b/c I have no idea what his range is b/c I know he thinks i'm tight/weak and it prices in UTG+1 w/ a lot more hands.

You have to make a bigger re-raise P/F than to just $150?

After the flop being C/R with two others involved, I think you have to punt as your Ks is more than likely no good anyway,even if a 4th spade were to fall on the river.

~sf

Re: KK in position and deep
 

go broke somehow but dont feel good about it

Re: KK in position and deep
 

Here is what a NL100 player thinks:

I don't like to loose 2 stacks with a draw/1pair hand in a multiway pot.
For this reason I'd check behind on any turn and would call the flop. Fold if SB 3bets. I don't have a plan for the turn though.

The hand would be much easier if it was HU against the LAG. If we were splashing around a lot and I folded most hands against him then I'd take a stand here. I'd call and let him shove any turn or shove it myself.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

WTF, shove! Someone has As Qx but ohh well, you must go broke here or give up poker!

Re: KK in position and deep
 

this would be so much easier if you had made it ~250-300, then you could just stick it in and feel good about it. as played you are [censored], i would fold to the flop check-raise.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

W/ the aweful preflop 3bet size, I don't think going broke here is a good idea. Muck it and adjust your bet sizes.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

Raise to 200 pre-flop and this wouldnt be nearly as much of a problem.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
WTF, shove! Someone has As Qx but ohh well, you must go broke here or give up poker!

[/ QUOTE ]

SALAZARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
W/ the aweful preflop 3bet size, I don't think going broke here is a good idea. Muck it and adjust your bet sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

i seriously wonder about someone who can't spell awful using the same word to criticize just about anything.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
W/ the aweful preflop 3bet size, I don't think going broke here is a good idea. Muck it and adjust your bet sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

i seriously wonder about someone who can't spell awful using the same word to criticize just about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

you may be able to spell, but your sentence is borderline unreadable. it took me several read throughs to get a general idea of what you were trying to say.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

I´d probably fold the flop here, against a set you´re 65/35 underdog, against a flopped flush without ace you´re 72/28 underdog..
the only hands that I can think of that he can do this with that you are ahead of is Q10 and AsQx, but would he call a 3-bet with those hands? It might be possible due to your 3-bet bet sizing.. So what happened?

Re: KK in position and deep
 

Hi Tx,

This is pretty tough to say without having been there, but my feeling is that you are beat on the flop. I agree with others who would've made it ~250 to go pre-flop, unless you are making these tiny reraises a lot vs. this LAG (which I doubt, since you said you were viewed as weak-tight).

On the flop, would you be leading here with less than AQ or the Ace of spades? Again, if the SB views you as weak tight, and he's raising an amount that the Ace of spades can easily call, I think you are crushed. Very hard to fold here, but you've messed up the hand badly at this point, and it's hard to see where the +EV is going to come from.

If you are not playing very weak-tight, and that's just a general label the SB applies to you, then he obviously could just be trying to run you over, and there's no way you can dump your hand. That's why I say that it's tough to give a good opinion without knowing more specifics of the dynamic.

I will say this, though: if the SB doesn't have a lock-on read of you, physically, then a min-reraise is pretty sexy. You make it 1500 in position, and he really has to consider that you have the nuts, based on your small raise size pre-flop. That is, if he can put you on any AsXs combo after the pre-flop action. If stacks were a little deeper (6K), I'd be pretty willing to try this. Either check behind most turns and then make a read on the river if it's HU, or bet 40% pot on the turn, and possibly fold to a raise. With these stacks, though, you won't be able to feel good about calling or folding to a push, so that's out.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Tx,

This is pretty tough to say without having been there, but my feeling is that you are beat on the flop. I agree with others who would've made it ~250 to go pre-flop, unless you are making these tiny reraises a lot vs. this LAG (which I doubt, since you said you were viewed as weak-tight).

On the flop, would you be leading here with less than AQ or the Ace of spades? Again, if the SB views you as weak tight, and he's raising an amount that the Ace of spades can easily call, I think you are crushed. Very hard to fold here, but you've messed up the hand badly at this point, and it's hard to see where the +EV is going to come from.

If you are not playing very weak-tight, and that's just a general label the SB applies to you, then he obviously could just be trying to run you over, and there's no way you can dump your hand. That's why I say that it's tough to give a good opinion without knowing more specifics of the dynamic.

I will say this, though: if the SB doesn't have a lock-on read of you, physically, then a min-reraise is pretty sexy. You make it 1500 in position, and he really has to consider that you have the nuts, based on your small raise size pre-flop. That is, if he can put you on any AsXs combo after the pre-flop action. If stacks were a little deeper (6K), I'd be pretty willing to try this. Either check behind most turns and then make a read on the river if it's HU, or bet 40% pot on the turn, and possibly fold to a raise. With these stacks, though, you won't be able to feel good about calling or folding to a push, so that's out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude.....you need some serious sleep as well after your vacation,after reading TWO of your other ramblings this morning!

result
 

I considered what hands I'd play this way if I was UTG+1 and it occured to me that most players have a very small range to call this flop raise in my position. It also seemed strange for him to play a big hand this way in a 3-way pot.

I called the flop w/ intentions of folding UI to almost any bet on the turn, b/c I assume his range becomes a lot smaller if he fires a second barrell.

the turn was a red jack, check/check

river was a red jack, check/check

he had Qh 10h

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]

Dude.....you need some serious sleep as well after your vacation,after reading TWO of your other ramblings this morning!

[/ QUOTE ]

Just woke up, and not a creature is stirring. You try it after being on Vegas time, and moving 2 time zones!

My point was just, "Is he going to run over you at every opportunity, or should he suspect you are loaded if you bet this flop, and therefore will have 2pair+ to raise you?"

Re: KK in position and deep
 

Sorry cero z for not understanding!

Re: result
 

[ QUOTE ]
the turn was a red jack, check/check

river was a red jack, check/check

[/ QUOTE ]
I cringed at the river check.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
i seriously wonder about someone who can't spell awful using the same word to criticize just about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one of the problems of not being English.

Should we take it out in a heads-up match?

Re: result
 

[ QUOTE ]
I considered what hands I'd play this way if I was UTG+1 and it occured to me that most players have a very small range to call this flop raise in my position. It also seemed strange for him to play a big hand this way in a 3-way pot.

I called the flop w/ intentions of folding UI to almost any bet on the turn, b/c I assume his range becomes a lot smaller if he fires a second barrell.

the turn was a red jack, check/check

river was a red jack, check/check

he had Qh 10h

[/ QUOTE ]

Call with the intentions of folding to any bet? Sounds awful. Check/Check on both streets? Thats even worse.

Re: KK in position and deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i seriously wonder about someone who can't spell awful using the same word to criticize just about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one of the problems of not being English.

Should we take it out in a heads-up match?

[/ QUOTE ]


gogogo!

Re: result
 

You talked about playing HU before.

If you want we can play HU @ FT this weekend. 4 tables of 10-20 sound good? Or we could do 2 tables of 25-50. Let me know via pm plz.

Re: result
 

I talked about playing HU. Is the invitation for me as well?

Re: result
 

this is easy no?

Re: KK in position and deep
 

me might have a-j with a spades

Re: KK in position and deep
 

make it make it 4-5x initial raise preflop and I just shove flop.