Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

Nate, you're right. I've read and reread that book(both editions) hundreds of times over the years, so some paragraphs are probably etched in my consciousness in granite.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
the private joker hand and the one pbob just posted a hh of are completely different than the hand in the op.

here's a hand i played against roc. 5 handed i open As8s utg he calls in bb and c/c 7s9sJd flop and K turn checks through. he bet/3 the 6s river and folds to 4bet which means he had like a T or 8 in his hand and nothing else. the difference between this hand and the one in the op is that im instantly calling a river bet from him ui, i have 0% chance of folding out a better hand and i can be semibluffed and foced to fold river UI very easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

In your hand vs roc the board was paired.

-DeathDonkey

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

ya sorry river was 7s or 9s or whatever the board pairing one was obviously bc i was completely serious after the hand when i said i was folding to a 5bet. flop/turn are right though aside from exactly which ones were spades though bc i know i flopped gutshot+fd and debated momentarily in my head whether to bet the K turn before realizing it served no purpose other than possible value that i dont think is as valuable as making sure i see a showdown here.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c.

He c/c.

Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r.

I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

why did you bet the turn?

3betting is amazingly bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me explain.

When he calls the flop on this board, he either has (a) a pair (b) a club draw (c) a gutshot or (d) nothing. When the turn card comes, he still has all of these things except for (c). It is quite possible that he is bluffing with something dumb like QT on this turn, but if he is, you have the best hand and have him drawing near dead. Let him barrel away. The only thing that happens when you 3bet the turn is that he either folds a worse hand or caps it with a straight. This is basically what happens when you bet, too. Check and take the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP here;

lot's of interesting talk btw/n checking behind turn or leading again.

What I'm still unsure about is the turn spot given the fact that I bet/got raised.

Now there's 6BB in the pot, and I'm thinking his range for c/r is wide (including straights of course) b/c he puts me on weak holdings / air.

So, this small pot is now worth taking, no? Isn't there value in 3bet semi-bluffing where FE must be huge? I mean, what can he call with? What will he call/ fold river UI with? Of course I figure he'll cap with a straight (or at least call/lead river) so since I have a tight image and I'm opening in l.p., if he doesn't have an 8 I'm winning this pot, aren't I (maybe NLHE viewpoint here, but I'm pretty sure no one thinks I'm 3bet bluffing here, and will feel good about folding 2pair type hands)?

As for river, I bet a flush/straight, check behind an ace (or value-bet?), and bluff bet unless i'm sure he's calling (physically).

So, I agree there's a good argument made by PBob to c turn, but given that I didn't, should I turn my hand into a bluff and try to get those 6BBs (or river flush obv plan b)?

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]

So, I agree there's a good argument made by PBob to c turn, but given that I didn't, should I turn my hand into a bluff and try to get those 6BBs (or river flush obv plan b)?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. 3betting the turn got very little discussion because it is very bad and basically everyone agrees.

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So, I agree there's a good argument made by PBob to c turn, but given that I didn't, should I turn my hand into a bluff and try to get those 6BBs (or river flush obv plan b)?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. 3betting the turn got very little discussion because it is very bad and basically everyone agrees.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP--

Yeah, remember that a lot of people don't think that Villain will fold any pair here. I happen to think they're mistaken in general, but certainly I don't think a 3-bet has "a lot of fold equity." If there were a solid chance you could steal this substantial pot, then of course we'd recommend it. As it stands, you won't recover the extra BB or two you put in by 3-betting, and it probably won't be close.

--Nate

Re: 30/60 turn spot
 

i agree, i think i'm overestimating the fold equity. cheers guys