Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

I am fairly new to NL (this is my first session over 1.5 hours), I have played LHE for some years now.

I am sitting at a NL table for about 6 hours when this occurs. There is one caller, and I raise $10 pre-flop with 77. Only the limper calls.

As the dealer is preparing to deal the flop, my opponent asks me if I want to check down the hand. I have played with him for most of the 6 hours and he and I have gotten along.

I can't stand the idea of checking hands down for many reasons but among them, I came to play. I want to learn and I want my opponents to play me hard. And earlier at the table, one guy had said "If you bet I will fold." So the opponent bet, and the guy said "raise"...

So I tell him no. Then the flop comes 742 two spades and I say "Maybe the flop will hit me" as the dealer drops it on the table. He then says he is on a flush draw and do I want to check it down (again). I say I'm not sure I believe him and I make a pot sized bet. He calls.

The turn is the 2 of spades. I bet $50 and he calls. The river is a blank, I bet $100. He tanks and then calls.

After I flip my hand, he starts getting incredibly upset - obstensibly with himself - for calling. He says "I told you I had a flush". And then he says "You were trying to tell me you had a hand when you bet $100". I don't really say anything.

What I want to know, is:
1) Do these "lets check it down" requests happen a lot at NL? (I saw it on one other hand I wasn't involved in - and one player declined)
2) When both players agree to check it down, is it binding?

It almost never happens at LHE. The only time I have seen it at LHE was two guys who knew each other very well or a husband/wife HU.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

I've experienced it too. When I realize that I've gotten too chummy with one (or more) of the other players, 2 things happen: 1. my game is not the best, & 2. Your pal will try to take advantage. Rack your chips and take a break.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

Just say, "I can't do that. I'm a (censored)" and then bet. Everyone will laugh, and you won't have to slowplay. FWIW, its ALWAYS an angleshoot when someone asks.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

People say a lot in a live NL game to get an advantage. I just usually say something like "Well that wouldn't be fun" when someone says something like checking it down.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What I want to know, is:
1) Do these "lets check it down" requests happen a lot at NL? (I saw it on one other hand I wasn't involved in - and one player declined)
2) When both players agree to check it down, is it binding?

It almost never happens at LHE. The only time I have seen it at LHE was two guys who knew each other very well or a husband/wife HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Checking it down is pretty common, but usually the two players know that the other one will check it down. I've not seen any instances where I felt it was really cheating, but it obviously at least appears collusive to the last guy out.

2. As far as I know, checking it down is never binding.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

I see it more in limit then in NL but I do see it in both (too much IMHO). I don't like it and always say NO when asked (and I am asked WAY too much - Play poker for crying out loud!).



The last time I played 2-5 NL at Bellagio, there were a few regulars who would play against tourists but check it down if against only each other. One Asian older lady (from the Check-it-Down Club) asked me to check it down with her. (perhaps spotting me as a Vegas local)

I gave her my default response,"Sorry Lady, I came to Vegas to drink free beer and Gamble!".


Best Wishes

Howard

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

Unfortunately common. Drives me nuts when asked, I have only accepted once when playing heads up with a cute dealer who was playing NL for the first time. Still felt dirty.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

Thanks to all for great response ideas and for sharing your experience with this.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, its ALWAYS an angleshoot when someone asks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. Often it's just how someone likes to play. Every heard of "want to run it twice?" Similar idea.

This often happens with a hand that someone does not want to make difficult decisions with, and also doesn't want to play with their whole stack. Or just doesn't want to make big decisions - just wants to play a relaxed hand. Of course it *could* be an angle shoot, but often not.

Hands they might want to play this way are AK, 66, or 65s. And it's not necessarily a bad bet to take either.

Since your opponent told you he had a flush draw, you now know you can't trust him. Meaning: agreeing to check down is not binding, and since he lied about that, he could lie about checking it down too. You can

1 - agree to check down against someone you trust
2 - agree to check down a hand like 77 against someone you don't trust, and then hammer then when you hit your set and they bet into you on the river
3 - simply decline

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

"NO WAY !!! I came here to gamboooool !!! Waitress, another round for the whole table, please."

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

You are a regular at 5/10 and 10/20 LHE? I play most games at Foxwoods at the level you do, and in my experience this is relatively uncommon at 1/2 NL compared to games involving older players. It's far, far more common at O8 and the lower limit stud games, where it is often done unspoken. Several O8 regulars will simply stop betting when 2 end up heads up in a pot without any agreement whatsoever. At a 5/10 stud table I was at the entire table seemed to be implicitly agreeing that once headsup (70%+ of the hands at this tight passive table) there would be no more betting, which meant literally no bets when in on 3/4 of the hands after about 4th street.

Makes for an interesting strategy adjustment-- how do you draw when you know you won't get paid off for getting there, but can chase all the way far more cheaply than normal? The adjustment I decided on was "find a new table."

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are a regular at 5/10 and 10/20 LHE? I play most games at Foxwoods at the level you do, and in my experience this is relatively uncommon at 1/2 NL compared to games involving older players. It's far, far more common at O8 and the lower limit stud games, where it is often done unspoken. Several O8 regulars will simply stop betting when 2 end up heads up in a pot without any agreement whatsoever. At a 5/10 stud table I was at the entire table seemed to be implicitly agreeing that once headsup (70%+ of the hands at this tight passive table) there would be no more betting, which meant literally no bets when in on 3/4 of the hands after about 4th street.

Makes for an interesting strategy adjustment-- how do you draw when you know you won't get paid off for getting there, but can chase all the way far more cheaply than normal? The adjustment I decided on was "find a new table."

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the best adjustment. If they are checking it down for everyone then I play more drawing hands. Generally I noticed the fossils raise and reraise when I am in the hand and don't start checking until they are heads up with each other.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably the best adjustment. If they are checking it down for everyone then I play more drawing hands. Generally I noticed the fossils raise and reraise when I am in the hand and don't start checking until they are heads up with each other.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean that it's never a 3-way check down, I agree. The check-it-down guys seem to think that they're making 2-1 when it's three way, but headsup it's 50/50 so why bother? This is just one of the many ways that they make sure that they only lose their money slowly.

If you mean that they play straight until you're out, you're probably still right. The check-it-down guys never ask me if I want to check it down, they just know that I won't.

Re: Soft play at 1/2 NL?
 

I've done this with someone I have been joking around with at the table if its a small pot and heads up (but only when I have been the pf raiser)

If he says no, I don't take it personally though...