Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Here is a thoughtful take on Les Miles as a coach. I think it does a very good job of looking at things rationally, instead of the fairly arrogant look we tend to take. Typically I see things like, "This one time I saw a coach use his timeouts poorly, so he's clearly a bad or at least mediocre coach overall," as if perfect time management is the main criteria on which we should evaluate coaches. Or the "OMG he has like a billion 5 star recruits, an idiot could go 10-2 there, so he's clearly underachieveing", even though the instances where 10-2 is a failure based on talent are very very small, the incredible demands of fans notwithstanding.

Anyway, worth reading, but I think Les is a very strong hire, though I think Tedford is still better.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a thoughtful take on Les Miles as a coach. I think it does a very good job of looking at things rationally, instead of the fairly arrogant look we tend to take. Typically I see things like, "This one time I saw a coach use his timeouts poorly, so he's clearly a bad or at least mediocre coach overall," as if perfect time management is the main criteria on which we should evaluate coaches. Or the "OMG he has like a billion 5 star recruits, an idiot could go 10-2 there, so he's clearly underachieveing", even though the instances where 10-2 is a failure based on talent are very very small, the incredible demands of fans notwithstanding.

Anyway, worth reading, but I think Les is a very strong hire, though I think Tedford is still better.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting link.

I watched "The Rivalry" yesterday and it got me pretty fired up. I started thinking about tradition and how important it is to the success of the program. Les is a Michigan man and he already "gets it", obviously. I hope he's our next coach.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

With the talk about recruits and asst coaches...


Aren't all the asst coaches guaranteed spots next year because of the changes Lloyd made to his contracts? Also, Miles is a Michigan man, so I'd be surprised if he didn't know/work with at some point pretty much all the staff.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Another comment...

the idea of a "michigan man" is a very important one in the AD, in every sport, since Bo. They really, really want a "michigan man"

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
I started thinking about tradition and how important it is to the success of the program. Les is a Michigan man and he already "gets it", obviously. I hope he's our next coach.

[/ QUOTE ]
This sounds scarily like ND when they hired Weis, but at least Miles has extensive college coaching experience.

[ QUOTE ]
Aren't all the asst coaches guaranteed spots next year because of the changes Lloyd made to his contracts?

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe they get paid next year regardless of their place on the actual staff. If this is true, who stays or goes next year could be hugely dependent on how much UM wants to pay. Considering how money they athletic department makes, they better be willing to pay.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
With the talk about recruits and asst coaches...


Aren't all the asst coaches guaranteed spots next year because of the changes Lloyd made to his contracts? Also, Miles is a Michigan man, so I'd be surprised if he didn't know/work with at some point pretty much all the staff.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they are guaranteed pay for one year if they are not retained. No one would right a contract actually mandating that the new coach keep every single assistant (wouldn't matter anyway; if you fired them and they sued they'd just get damages essentially amounting to a year's pay anyway, same difference). As far as his connections go, he left Michigan after the 94 season (he left shortly before Mo got canned, else he might have been made OC under Carr). Not sure who is still on the staff from them, but probably not many people.

Not sure who he'd keep, but Miles has a good track record of hiring good assistants/coordinators. If he keeps Loeffler (as an OC) and English as DC I'll trust his judgment for the time being. Loeffler is the QB coach but gets a fair amount of hype from insiders. I lack the knowledge so I'll defer to Miles. English has been reasonably impressive (sans first two games this year) considering we have no real linebackers to speak of, other than the variance-roller coaster Crable. He's also a very good recruiter. Again, given Miles' record, I'd trust his judgment, as this isn't something I really know enough to comment on in any serious way (and realistically no one else does either, at least not to the point of being able to say such a decision would be clearly wrong; unless it involved DeBord).

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Another comment...

the idea of a "michigan man" is a very important one in the AD, in every sport, since Bo. They really, really want a "michigan man"

[/ QUOTE ]

Odd thing, that. Bo wasn't a Michigan Man, at least not when he arrived (you can safely say he became one, but then we're talking about some vague set of characteristics and not having been officially associated with Michigan). Crisler didn't. Yost didn't.

Personally I don't think it matters much. The thing is, there's a ton of tradition and history here, but it's not like only a "Michigan Man" is going to play on that. Given that its a useful tool in recruiting and playing to the media and (especially) playing to fans and alums, only an idiot would not learn it and use it to his advantage. The fact that Tedford, say, didn't go to UM doesn't mean he would be less able to talk about the greatness of Fielding H. Yost and Bob Ufer in front of blue-haired alums with deep pockets than Les Miles could.

Granted, I can't say whether the AD agrees with me.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

On the question of who, if anyone, to keep on the current staff, a big issue that not many talk about is our strength and conditioning program. Not my area of expertise, but I've heard from those in the know. It is almost universally agreed that Gittleson's methods are way behind everyone else, and we need a significant change. I've seen Ryan Mundy's quotes on the subject. He said West Virginia's S&C program is vastly superior to UM's.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Gittleson is way gone. Him and DeBord should be by far the easiest people to can.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the question of who, if anyone, to keep on the current staff, a big issue that not many talk about is our strength and conditioning program. Not my area of expertise, but I've heard from those in the know. It is almost universally agreed that Gittleson's methods are way behind everyone else, and we need a significant change. I've seen Ryan Mundy's quotes on the subject. He said West Virginia's S&C program is vastly superior to UM's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Mundy pretty much said WVU S&C >>>> UM S&C

Gittleson runs the HIT (high intensity training) method of S&C, which (to my knowledge) only one other program in the country runs: Penn St.

If I had to think of two programs that epitomize "slow Big Ten teams that seem to recruit amazing athletes and speedsters and slow them down", it's Michigan and Penn State. HIT is widely considered an inferior S&C program for football -- it's jokingly referred to as "s-HIT" by many. The reason why players appear to look slower as they're groomed in the Michigan program might be some kind of Jedi mind trick, but I believe the effect is real, and I have to think at least some of the blame lays on Gittleson and his awful S&C program. Hopefully he's already looking for a new job with DeBord and Andy Moeller (OLine coach).

I agree that I have no program if English stays.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Here's a very interesting post from The Hawkeye Lounge that may give some insight as to what's going on behind the scenes at Michigan right now with Lloyd and Mary Sue pushing for Ferentz and the rest of the planet pushing for Les Miles. This guy also says that Carr was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 2001 and has been planning his retirement for quite some time.

http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showp...=470862;d=this

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

I've heard that Parkinson's story too; hoping it is not the case, obviously. That, btw, was the source of the Miles/Carr feud, if rumors are to be believed: that Miles had told recruits about his condition and that he wouldn't be around much longer, specifically Jai Eugene. Needless to say, Carr was not pleased. That's a bit troubling, but recruiting is a classic "laws and sausage" procedure: you really are best not hearing about the process if you care about the end result. I know we tend to have a large contingent here that seems to think that ethics, morals, and acting like a reasonable human being has no place in any remotely competitive endeavor, meaning that basically anything that isn't outright cheating is perfectly fine. I'm not arguing for the opposite extreme, that no one ever say anything negative about anyone, but there are things you probably shouldn't do, even if not illegal, and this seems perilously close to one of them in my view. It'd be worse if he either just made it up or based it on very sketchy info; at least it may be accurate.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Dvault, where did you get that 'HIT' info. on mich, and only psu and mich use this training? i think that is bs. every team in america utilizes 'HIT' training along with many other training methods. i don't squarely put the blame only on training. the athletes we get are who they are. most of our skill position players are just as fast as others, our o-line is just as strong as other, our d-line and so on and so on. you can go down the line we are very comparable to other big ten/midwest teams. now it never hurts to have a younger s&c coach who is more in tune with modern advances in training methodology.

however, i think more blame needs to be put on off. play calling. not using off. weapons properly, not being creative offensively. and defensively we dont tackle, we play a loose zone, etc...

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

edit. i do agree our guys could use improve training. we do tire faster, we have poor technique later in games, this is obv. attributed to s&c. i agree that we need a new coach in this department. i just don't think the problem is 'hit' training and that is the reason.

poor tackling is usually do to lazyness and bad technique. but the more i think about it, strenght is very important, maybe our defenders are not strong as they could be.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dvault, where did you get that 'HIT' info. on mich, and only psu and mich use this training? i think that is bs. every team in america utilizes 'HIT' training along with many other training methods.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://hem.passagen.se/ridddler/hitfaq20.htm

"HIT is used by a number of universities and professional teams - it certainly doesn't represent the majority of the programs but it's used widely enough to be considered a productive form of training.

At the collegiate level, HIT programs are used at:

* The University of Kentucky (except football)
* Michigan
* The University of South Carolina
* Penn State
* Villanova
* The University of Toledo
* The U.S. Military Academy
* Providence College
* Western Kentucky
* The University of Cincinnati"

So there are a couple of other I-A teams using HIT, apparently (South Carolina, Toledo, Cincinnati, Western Kentucky) -- but it's definitely not widely used in football training.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

MGoBlog has some information posted from an LSU forum. Four different posters there say they were told by players that Miles has told the team he is leaving for Michigan. Local news stations are reporting the same. If this is all true, hopefully Miles will be in Ann Arbor within the week.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

saw this headline on espn.com, and got a chuckle...

'Michigan looking for a new Carr with Les Miles...'

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

dvault,
those are just some of the programs that the author knows are using HIT training. every athlete in the world is using some form of HIT training whether they know it or not. there are so many forms of HIT training that its almost a useless term. sorry for harping on this, but you seem to think HIT is an exact blueprint.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Herbstreit just announced on ESPN that Michigan will name Miles as the new head coach this week and that he will be bringing along Jon Tenuta from Georgia Tech as his defensive coordinator.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Tenuta is a fantastic surprise, although I have no complaints with English. Plz Plz Plz get rid of DeBord...

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Lots of other people reporting Miles signed/will sign an extension and remove himself from consideration. WTF?

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Eh, probably just a ploy to get more money out of UM. Yeah, he might love Ann Arbor, but leaving that much money on the table is still a lot to ask.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of other people reporting Miles signed/will sign an extension and remove himself from consideration. WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't believe a word Jim Carty says until I heard same from another source.