Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
If Jim Harbaugh didn't make the comments about academics etc..earlier this year, does anybody think he would be a candidate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you joking? He's had 1 year (not even) at scholarship program. He might be 5+ years down the road (or might have been), but to hire him at this point would be sheer lunacy. Granted, they're winning about as many games as I thought they would with that schedule and talent, so it's not like I think he is necessarily doing a bad job, but there's no real track record to speak of and absolutely no reason to take a chance. Plus it would be a total Notre Dame move to do something drastic because of a win (or "win") over USC.

People need to be longterm about this. Tedford has turned a crap program into an excellent one. The fact that "OMG he's lost 4 games!" isn't entirely irrelevant but if you're moving him from 1st to out of consideration after his team wound up 6-4 you're just way too short-sighted. With all the information we have you really shouldn't be moving people that drastically, much like the Heisman Race in week 10.

I know you specifically may not have done that with Tedford, but lots of people have and I really hate that 5-minute attention span.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't be shocked if Michigan ends up with Greg Mattison who is flying under the radar

He is currently Florida's co-defensive coordinator. He was a d-line coach and defensive coordinator at Michigan from 1992 to 1996. He's a midwest guy. His son plays at Iowa right now.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would be shocked at Mattison. If memory serves, he left UM to take the same job at ND. I would hope Mattison is not even a remote option.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you joking? He's had 1 year (not even) at scholarship program. He might be 5+ years down the road (or might have been), but to hire him at this point would be sheer lunacy. Granted, they're winning about as many games as I thought they would with that schedule and talent, so it's not like I think he is necessarily doing a bad job, but there's no real track record to speak of and absolutely no reason to take a chance. Plus it would be a total Notre Dame move to do something drastic because of a win (or "win") over USC.

People need to be longterm about this. Tedford has turned a crap program into an excellent one. The fact that "OMG he's lost 4 games!" isn't entirely irrelevant but if you're moving him from 1st to out of consideration after his team wound up 6-4 you're just way too short-sighted. With all the information we have you really shouldn't be moving people that drastically, much like the Heisman Race in week 10.

I know you specifically may not have done that with Tedford, but lots of people have and I really hate that 5-minute attention span.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't advocating Harbaugh, for the reasons you mentioned, plus others, I was just curious if anybody thought he would have been given some consideration.

BTW, I would take Tedford in a second. Cal is not an easy program to attract top recruits. The job he has done there is nothing short of amazing, especially consideration the state it was in when he arrived.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[img]http://media.2theadvocate.com/images/180*197/les+miles_081606.jpg[/img]



[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] jagerbombs

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
guys on the radar for a higher head coaching job

Mark Mangino
Charlie Strong
Bo Pellini
Wil Muschamp
Brent Venables
Jumbo Fisher
Jim Harbaugh
Gus Malzahn
Mike Leach
DeWayne Walker
Steve Sarkisian
Greg Davis
Ron Prince
Gary Pinkel


I wouldn't be shocked if Michigan ends up with Greg Mattison who is flying under the radar

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have a hard time making a case for any of those guys getting the Michigan job. Not to take anything away from any of them (except maybe Pinkel).

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see Michigan hire Lou Holtz as next head football coach.

[/ QUOTE ]


omg die in a fire.

Lou Holtz actually was claiming that the Big XII was the best conference in football because they have 3 teams in the top 5.

Never mind the bottom 8 teams would probably have losing records in the MAC.

He is so retarded, and old.

I think you are joking, but if not, I hope you die in a fire [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guys on the radar for a higher head coaching job

Mark Mangino
Charlie Strong
Bo Pellini
Wil Muschamp
Brent Venables
Jumbo Fisher
Jim Harbaugh
Gus Malzahn
Mike Leach
DeWayne Walker
Steve Sarkisian
Greg Davis
Ron Prince
Gary Pinkel


I wouldn't be shocked if Michigan ends up with Greg Mattison who is flying under the radar

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have a hard time making a case for any of those guys getting the Michigan job. Not to take anything away from any of them (except maybe Pinkel).

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah...not really Michigan related...just a list I've been thinking about.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Holtz is way past gone, but people forget he was an excellent coach at ND. His record was very good and he played a very hard schedule. Although there was some sort of scandal after (did they go on probation?), plus he's a saliva-spitting elf.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Question for Carr from the retirement presser today:

How do you feel about Les Miles?

Carr: When it gets to discussing any potential candidates, I defer to Bill Martin. This process will be developed and executed by Bill, so I’m not going to get into all of the things that are his job. I can say that there are a lot of things that happen along the recruiting trail, it’s a very competitive business. Those are things you put to rest. For some of those rumors that are out there … I do want to make it clear that I’m not here to want to name the coach and all that bologna that some of you have written.


I assume the "recruiting trail is competitive business, those are things you put to rest" comment is in reference to Jai Eugene (alluded to earlier by damaniac), who had verbally committed to Michigan but then bolted to LSU close to signing day.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

hot semi-insider rumor is they want Bobby Petrino.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
hot semi-insider rumor is they want Bobby Petrino.

[/ QUOTE ]

He makes 4.8 mil a year with the Falcons.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hot semi-insider rumor is they want Bobby Petrino.

[/ QUOTE ]

He makes 4.8 mil a year with the Falcons.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure the ability to be a winning coach again can overcome that money difference, plus Petrino is an [censored]

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Rumor around campus is that Les Miles recently bought a house in Ann Arbor. My buddy heard this from a team photographer after the OSU game, so it's not 1000% confirmed, but that's what the rumor is right now.

Personally, it seems like everything is aligning for Miles to come and be the next coach at Michigan. "We now introduce the New Carr, Les Miles."

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

I am thrilled to get Miles.

1. As stupid as the incest is sometimes, I am happy to have a Michigan guy with ties to Bo.

2. I don't understand the "ZOMG he is a retard game coach" argument. He goes for it on 4th down alot. Good. He threw into the end zone at the end of the Auburn game. Who cares? There was no way the clock was going to run out.

3. Clearly an exceptional recruiter.

4. Good chance of innovation/change on offense for the first time in, well, ever.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
bonds,

1-13 don't mean a goddamn thing if you can't beat ohio state.

soooo, i sure hope that 1-13 are the criteria being considered, while we just keep on winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm sorry, but UM doesn't define itself by another school. Although we love beating you guys, this isn't nearly as true for us as it is for you

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

I'd be very happy with Miles. I would like Brian Kelly as well. I'd like a first call being made to Tedford (and in an ideal fantasy world, Stoops and Meyer). All academic as it is very, very, very likely it is Les. Meanwhile there will be hand-wringing over recruits wavering. We'll lose a couple. Such is life. It will go on.

I wound up participating in an impromptu interview with a Saginaw sports reporter for the local news station. Hopefully I didn't say anything dumb.

Thanks Lloyd. You were frustrating and could have hired some better assistants (%#$@ Debord) but you were intelligent and a fine leader and representative for the university. You made Sparty "bow down", owned Penn State, and did very well against a strong Wisconsin program. You gave us our only MNC in 50 years. You did well against a host of great OSU teams, although not as well as we'd have liked. Only 1-3 in Rose Bowls, but then that's not a new Michigan tradition. And you went 4-2 against the SEC in bowl games despite their Southern Speed.

Perhaps most importantly, you stepped down at the right time. Unlike PSU and FSU, we don't have a senile old man at the helm that the powers that be can't bring themselves to pull away. Next year is a rebuilding year but there is much talent, the program is still strong and the next coach will have a lot to work with. Enjoy retirement.

Now let's go Les!

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

"Now let's go Les!"

Now there's a rousing battle cry.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

I would come apart at the seams with excitement if we got Jeff Tedford.

I'll admit, I am not drinking his Kool-Aid as hard as I was when the season began but I'm pretty sure he would be better than Miles (not counting any "family" bonuses for Miles, etc.) and if anything at least we could count on the offense being "exciting".

But we could do way worse than to hire Miles.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rumor around campus is that Les Miles recently bought a house in Ann Arbor. My buddy heard this from a team photographer after the OSU game, so it's not 1000% confirmed, but that's what the rumor is right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Property transactions are public record in most places. This should be pretty easy to verify.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rumor around campus is that Les Miles recently bought a house in Ann Arbor. My buddy heard this from a team photographer after the OSU game, so it's not 1000% confirmed, but that's what the rumor is right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Property transactions are public record in most places. This should be pretty easy to verify.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone is going on about that rumor, no one seems to have good confirmation of it. I'm tempted to drive around Barton Hills and stop at any house with a "Sold" sign on it.

Also, when I visited Yost's grave on Saturday, right behind it is a large headstone that says "Miles". So apparently he's not just buying a home but also a plot at the cemetery. He's really going to be here for the long haul.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

To show you how informed the national press is, on Around The Horn on ESPN, one of Woody Paige's memories of Lloyd Carr was that he replaced Bo Schembechler. Memo to Woody: Gary Moeller replaced Bo Schembechler and was the head coach for 5 years.

By the way, Gary Moeller's winning percentage at UM was 77%. Lloyd Carr's is 75%. Amazing that some consider Carr a good coach, yet Moeller is considered a failure. Which is the thing I always point out when a Carr apologist tells me about Lloyd's great winning percentage.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
To show you how informed the national press is, on Around The Horn on ESPN, one of Woody Paige's memories of Lloyd Carr was that he replaced Bo Schembechler. Memo to Woody: Gary Moeller replaced Bo Schembechler and was the head coach for 5 years.

By the way, Gary Moeller's winning percentage at UM was 77%. Lloyd Carr's is 75%. Amazing that some consider Carr a good coach, yet Moeller is considered a failure. Which is the thing I always point out when a Carr apologist tells me about Lloyd's great winning percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Moeller was a drunken idiot and didn't represent the university well. There's more to being a coach than wins and losses.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

And fwiw Lloyd Carr had (has) the other coaching intangibles in spades.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Moeller was a drunken idiot and didn't represent the university well. There's more to being a coach than wins and losses.



[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but I was referring to on the field record, not off the field conduct. I have a small soft spot for Gary Moeller for one reason: His first game. Early September 1990 in South Bend. UM had to replace most of the offense. New QB (Grbac) new WR's (Desmond and Alexander) and a new TB (Jon Vaughn). As an underdog we came out in a no-huddle offense, totally catching ND off guard. The Irish were totally unprepared, as you can imagine, since Bo wouldn't think of trying to trick the other team. That would be unethical.

Using the no-huddle with young, unproven offensive weapons, we went up and down the field against a good ND defense. Jon Vaughn ran wild, Desmond came of age. Then, of course, we gave the game away, blowing a 10 point second half lead. But at least once, a UM team actually tried to trick the opponent. And for that, I don't hate Gary Moeller as much as others do.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To show you how informed the national press is, on Around The Horn on ESPN, one of Woody Paige's memories of Lloyd Carr was that he replaced Bo Schembechler. Memo to Woody: Gary Moeller replaced Bo Schembechler and was the head coach for 5 years.

By the way, Gary Moeller's winning percentage at UM was 77%. Lloyd Carr's is 75%. Amazing that some consider Carr a good coach, yet Moeller is considered a failure. Which is the thing I always point out when a Carr apologist tells me about Lloyd's great winning percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Moeller was a drunken idiot and didn't represent the university well. There's more to being a coach than wins and losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT +

add a national championship. Carr was pure class and a very respectable man outside of football.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, but I was referring to on the field record, not off the field conduct. I have a small soft spot for Gary Moeller

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the rarest of the rare breeds.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, but I was referring to on the field record, not off the field conduct. I have a small soft spot for Gary Moeller


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You are the rarest of the rare breeds.


[/ QUOTE ]

That is probably true. However, don't you find it interesting that people defend Carr with "ZOMG how can you criticize a coach with that great winning percentage." But those same people think Moeller was a bad coach, despite an almost identical winning percentage. If winning percentage is a great tool in determining who is a good coach and who isn't..then great. Everyone should be consistent, though.

By the way, so there is no misunderstanding, I do not think Gary Moeller was a good coach. He never should have been hired in the first place, just as Carr should never have gotten the job. At Michigan, incest is best. Instead of searching the country to find the best possible coach, we must promote from within. Hopefully that mentality is gone. At least our last 2 basketball coaches were not "promote from within" hires after a long stretch of that.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sure, but I was referring to on the field record, not off the field conduct. I have a small soft spot for Gary Moeller

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the rarest of the rare breeds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm drunk and I think what I meant to say is u r dumb.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm drunk and I think what I meant to say is u r dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

My posts contain actual statistics, anecdotes, and arguments, and the best you can do is "u r dumb." Sorry, you lose.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm drunk and I think what I meant to say is u r dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

My posts contain actual statistics, anecdotes, and arguments, and the best you can do is "u r dumb." Sorry, you lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason you have chosen to launch a defense of Gary Moeller.

nuff said

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
For some reason you have chosen to launch a defense of Gary Moeller.

nuff said


[/ QUOTE ]

You must be really drunk or totally incabable of understanding the written word. I guess you missed my previous posts where I specifically said I didn't think Moeller was a good coach and that he never should have gotten the job in the first place.

I simply said I admired the fact that he was willing to use a no-huddle offense in his first game, which was very effective.

If you want to debate the merits of any coach, player or team, I'd be happy to do that, but first you have to actually read what I have written.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For some reason you have chosen to launch a defense of Gary Moeller.

nuff said


[/ QUOTE ]

You must be really drunk or totally incabable of understanding the written word. I guess you missed my previous posts where I specifically said I didn't think Moeller was a good coach and that he never should have gotten the job in the first place.

I simply said I admired the fact that he was willing to use a no-huddle offense in his first game, which was very effective.

If you want to debate the merits of any coach, player or team, I'd be happy to do that, but first you have to actually read what I have written.

[/ QUOTE ]

There isn't one goddamned thing I admire about Gary Moeller and I question the loyalty of anyone who defends his tenure at UofM. He clearly lacked respect for the position he held.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
There isn't one goddamned thing I admire about Gary Moeller and I question the loyalty of anyone who defends his tenure at UofM. He clearly lacked respect for the position he held.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a level? It has to be. As previously stated in the last 3 or 4 posts, I didn't think Gary Moeller was a good coach, and he never should have gotten the job in the first place. How many times do I have to say that before you stop telling me how much I am praising Gary Moeller?

If somebody said you were bad at your job and you never should have gotten it in the first place, would you interpret that as a compliment?

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, Gary Moeller's winning percentage at UM was 77%. Lloyd Carr's is 75%. Amazing that some consider Carr a good coach, yet Moeller is considered a failure. Which is the thing I always point out when a Carr apologist tells me about Lloyd's great winning percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was starting from here.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, Gary Moeller's winning percentage at UM was 77%. Lloyd Carr's is 75%. Amazing that some consider Carr a good coach, yet Moeller is considered a failure. Which is the thing I always point out when a Carr apologist tells me about Lloyd's great winning percentage.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I was starting from here.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I posted that Carr and Moeller's winning percentage at UM were almost identical, it wasn't done to praise Moeller, it was done to illustrate that people who defend Carr based on his winning percentage, must also defend Moeller as a good coach. Or John Cooper at OSU, and many others who had great winning percentages.

Bottom line, imo: If you are coaching at an elite program with access to great talent, you have to be a [censored] up of biblical proportions not to have a good winning percentage. As previously stated, Gary Moeller and John Cooper had great winning percentages. Does anybody consider them really good coaches? If not, then how do the same people consider Carr a good coach based on that same criteria?

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, Gary Moeller's winning percentage at UM was 77%. Lloyd Carr's is 75%. Amazing that some consider Carr a good coach, yet Moeller is considered a failure. Which is the thing I always point out when a Carr apologist tells me about Lloyd's great winning percentage.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I was starting from here.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I posted that Carr and Moeller's winning percentage at UM were almost identical, it wasn't done to praise Moeller, it was done to illustrate that people who defend Carr based on his winning percentage, must also defend Moeller as a good coach.

[/ QUOTE ]

People who defend Carr based solely on his winning percentage are missing out on the big picture.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
People who defend Carr based solely on his winning percentage are missing out on the big picture.


[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. You liked Lloyd because he representated the school well and ran a clean program. DVaut had a good post in this thread detailing how Carr was willing to look the other way or give a slap on the wrist to certain players who broke the law or team rules, but we'll leave that aside.

Like you, I think representing the University and running a clean program are extremely important. Ethics and integrity should not be compromised to win games, imo. However, this reminds me of an old Chris Rock routine. Rock told a story about a guy bragging because he had never been to jail. The Rock reply: you shouldn't go to jail. That is to be expected, it is not necessarily something you should be bragging about. I feel a little bit like Rock when talking about Carr on this issue. Yes, he generally has represented the school well and ran a clean program, but that is to be expected, at least at Michigan.

I'm willing to give him a little credit on the matter, but I feel uncomfortable heaping praise on someone for doing what they are expected to do: not break a lot of rules or go on drunken tirades.

I do wish him well in whatever he decides to do next. He's a nice guy (except to sideline reporters trying to do their job), I just don't think he was a top notch football coach. He was a guy probably destined to be a career assistant until fate intervened.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be very happy with Miles. I would like Brian Kelly as well. I'd like a first call being made to Tedford (and in an ideal fantasy world, Stoops and Meyer). All academic as it is very, very, very likely it is Les. Meanwhile there will be hand-wringing over recruits wavering. We'll lose a couple. Such is life. It will go on.

I wound up participating in an impromptu interview with a Saginaw sports reporter for the local news station. Hopefully I didn't say anything dumb.

Thanks Lloyd. You were frustrating and could have hired some better assistants (%#$@ Debord) but you were intelligent and a fine leader and representative for the university. You made Sparty "bow down", owned Penn State, and did very well against a strong Wisconsin program. You gave us our only MNC in 50 years. You did well against a host of great OSU teams, although not as well as we'd have liked. Only 1-3 in Rose Bowls, but then that's not a new Michigan tradition. And you went 4-2 against the SEC in bowl games despite their Southern Speed.

Perhaps most importantly, you stepped down at the right time. Unlike PSU and FSU, we don't have a senile old man at the helm that the powers that be can't bring themselves to pull away. Next year is a rebuilding year but there is much talent, the program is still strong and the next coach will have a lot to work with. Enjoy retirement.

Now let's go Les!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have always thought Lloyd to be a good man and was starting to feel a soft spot for him. But now I am thankful he coached so poorly in his final game so there can be no doubt his time has come.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

We want a new Carr with Les Miles

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../71120011/1048

Bodoglife.com has posted odds on who the next Michigan coach will be:

Les Miles, LSU coach -- 2/1
Kirk Ferentz, Iowa coach -- 9/2
Mike Trgovac, Carolina Panthers defensive coordinator -- 5/1
Brian Kelly, Cincinnati coach and former Central Michigan and Grand Valley coach -- 6/1
Ron English, U-M defensive coordinator -- 6/1
Bret Bielema, Wisconsin coach -- 7/1
Bobby Petrino, Atlanta Falcons coach -- 10/1
Jon Gruden, Tampa Bay Bucs coach -- 10/1
Jim Harbaugh, Stanford coach and U-M alum -- 10/1
Bill Cowher, ex-Pittsburgh Steelers coach -- 15/1
Field (all others) -- 2/1