3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

villain aggressive and likes to check raise his big hands.
I've no fe on the flop but even so maybe shoulda pushed there?

Given I did not push flop, is there any way I can fold turn?

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $3/$6
3 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
hero: $1062.45
SB: $1422.92
BB: $912.49

Pre-flop: (3 players) hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $24</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($72, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $62.95</font>, hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $323.8</font>, BB folds, hero calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($782.55, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $782.55

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

OK. Please raise somewhere on the flop. After coldcalling then getting c/r big, I say [censored] it and push flop tbh. Please raise when BB donkbets tho... don't just flatcall. Pokerstove it on the turn- it's a negative EV call vs his range, but if you wanna gamble... This hand was played sooo badly on the flop though.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

gotta push somewhere on the flop.

Now half your equity is gone on the turn, gotta fold now.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

"I've no fe"

After the SB raises, I agree. But you almost surely have FE after the BB bets, and you have a load of actual equity against almost any range so that would be a fine time to raise and get in, imo.

As played, I'd fold turn.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

come on now, pokerstove your equity versus A9+ on the turn.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
come on now, pokerstove your equity versus A9+ on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

because surely his two pair outs are always good here.

more money on flop, sadly muck the turn.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

KLJ,

Are you mocking me?

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

ugh--bb likes to donk bet a very weak range. We've had a ton of history and so when he donk bet I decided to smooth call, hoping he'd continue on turn so I could push. But . . .

When villain check raised I knew he was not folding if I pushed. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

it doesnt matter if villains folding or not. you have 50% equity vs sets and are slightly ahead of 2 pair. the fact is you miss the turn 3/4 times and you're going to get shut out which is exactly what happened here.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it doesnt matter if villains folding or not. you have 50% equity vs sets and are slightly ahead of 2 pair. the fact is you miss the turn 3/4 times and you're going to get shut out which is exactly what happened here.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the sake of correctness, your equity vs a set is actually 40%:
Board: Ad 7d 8h

Hand 0: 39.652% { 6d5d }
Hand 1: 60.348% { AA, 88-77 }

and vs 2 pair it's 49%:
Board: Ad 7d 8h

Hand 0: 48.889% { 6d5d }
Hand 1: 51.111% { A8s-A7s, 87s }

As for how to play the hand, I like a raise of the initial better and just get it in. You have some fold equity and are never far behind. From a meta-perspective you have to balance how you would play a set here and this is the perfect hand to do it with.

Finally, your draw is somewhat obvious, so it will be difficult to get paid off with if you hit. And there's the minuscule chance you you fold out a hand like QdXd or KdXd which is huge if it ever happens.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

yeah villain's range is heavily weighted toward a set but even so I guess a push is best. Didn't do a very good job adjusting my flop plan once sb raised. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

i'm not a big fan of pushing at best 50% equity this deep. personally, i dump it on the flop if you feel like you have no FE. as played, i can't see how you're considering calling on the turn. fold.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

I'd 100% push flop second time around. You'd have to ask a math guy what to do on the turn [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I'd prolly call.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

yeah i also don't like pushing the flop. every time you get it in you're either vs a dominating draw or a set which both are ahead, or sometimes you'll get it in vs twopair against which you're almost a flip. considering you have next to nothing invested, getting it in here is just stupid

i don't have it in me to fold though so i'd call probably

i'd much rather raise the initial donk than the overraise.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

With zero fold equity, you need 45% equity to shove the flop. You don't have it.
Board: 8h Ad 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.158% 39.11% 00.05% 6969 9.00 { 6d5d }
Hand 1: 60.842% 60.79% 00.05% 10833 9.00 { 88-77, A8s-A7s, KdQd, Kd8d, JdTd, Td9d, 9d8d, 87s }

To make the turn call, you need 32% equity, which, assuming he bets pot with the exact same range on the turn, you do have.

Board: 8h Ad 7d 5h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.258% 38.26% 00.00% 303 0.00 { 6d5d }
Hand 1: 61.742% 61.74% 00.00% 489 0.00 { 88-77, A8s-A7s, KdQd, Kd8d, JdTd, Td9d, 9d8d, 87s }

If he slows down with some two pair and drawing hands you don't have the equity to make the call.

Re: 3/6 nl call off my stack here?
 

ipoker,

Isn't your action with opsfd also important in regard to your plan with big hand (sets, 2p)