100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

Here is a hand in which I thought about SPR. We have a late position limp and call and I have a decent hand that is ahead both of their ranges. You would expect a raise from QQ+,AQ+ in LP, so I am unlikely to be dominated. I have no reads on either villain yet (I've only been at the table for two rounds), so I'll assume they are average. Obviously the button is very short here, but he really doesn't have to have much to limp here. Often he will fold if I raise, and if he does call PF then he will have to fold most flops. The only thing I worry about is getting committed with a c-bet where I have to call.

Against MP3 I think an SPR of about 4 would be perfect and probably very achievable. I could commit on a J high flop, most A high flops, and we will likely fold to most c-bets.

If I raise to $5 here and both players call my SPRs will be
MP3: 3.3
Button: 1.2

If only MP3 calls (which I think likely) then we will have an SPR of 5.

This seems to be a good middle ground for a raise and has the potential for a nice payoff if MP3 calls with a dominated type hand. My only fear is the button, who I might get committed against and cost me a little more to make this play than I like. Of course, I don't have to c-bet if the board is unfavorable- I'm still in a nice position stack wise if I can achieve these SPRs.

The alternative is just to complete which might be the best option, especially since I'll be playing the hand OOP. However, I'll have a terrible SPR of 14 against MP3, which I don't like. On the flip side, it's a cheap flop and I can get away if someone shows some real strength.

I'm still trying to think through target SPR situations PF. I think the concept has a great deal of potential, but I know I'm not even close to applying it correctly yet. Nonetheless, in a hand like this I find the options intriguing. Thoughts?


Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $39.85
UTG+1: $35
MP1: $34
MP2: $206.15
MP3: $59
CO: $98
Button: $23.50
Hero: $195.60
BB: $99

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
4 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero ????

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

Wow, no comments on this yet?

I think this is a hand that is in between the stealing and committing with the best hand continuum. Specifically since your read is that you will just be able to steal this pot either here or after the flop I think a raise is a good play. You are OOP but this hand is certainly playable and this gets you into the best SPR against the deep stack if he calls. Also, if the button calls and raises you on the flop I don't think you have to be committed.

For example, if you raise to 4, it goes HU to the flop with the button, you miss and you bet 4 again you will be right at putting 1/3 of your stack in and since this was pretty much a bluff at this point(which is profitable here) and you may have very few outs I think you are ok folding. It is an exception but if you think he is predictable enough then I am ok with it.

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

I think 4 is too little. At least with 5 then we have some FE PF, but I think both of these players are gong to call 4 every time. And AJ isn't really THAT strong of a hand, so I'd like a lower SPR if possible for those times I do flop a jack.

The thing about 5 is that I'd really like to be HU with MP3, and it seems likely that the button will call 4 more if MP3 does. However, there is some benefit to having the short stack in, which might offset how easy it will be for me to get pot stuck against him with overs- his presence creates a protected pot so it will be very difficult for MP3 to float/bluff a flop c-bet.

I actually think 6 might be best, especially since it will sometimes result in a HU pot with a good SPR (3.75) against MP3. The only problem with 6 is if the button does call then a c-bet commits me to getting all in with overs against him.

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think 4 is too little. At least with 5 then we have some FE PF, but I think both of these players are gong to call 4 every time. And AJ isn't really THAT strong of a hand, so I'd like a lower SPR if possible for those times I do flop a jack.

The thing about 5 is that I'd really like to be HU with MP3, and it seems likely that the button will call 4 more if MP3 does. However, there is some benefit to having the short stack in, which might offset how easy it will be for me to get pot stuck against him with overs- his presence creates a protected pot so it will be very difficult for MP3 to float/bluff a flop c-bet.

I actually think 6 might be best, especially since it will sometimes result in a HU pot with a good SPR (3.75) against MP3. The only problem with 6 is if the button does call then a c-bet commits me to getting all in with overs against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking further it would probably be best to raise to 6 as you mention since you should tailor your raises towards the deep stack since more money is at risk against him.

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

Make it $5. You are dominating their range here.

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

great hand Jeff, and great analysis.....

I pretty much agree with all of your thinking and application. This is not a problem of you "missing" something (you seem to have looked at all angles), it's a problem of it simply being a contentious hand. Lots of options here, but that's what makes the game fun, right?

FWIW, I'd probably lean towards choosing the more aggressive play and raising pf. Your hand is good against their range, and you can't play in fear of "omg what if they outflop me" (not that you do). Remember, if they have unpaired cards, THEY won't hit that often either (in which case your initiative wins you the pot). And, as you said, you don't always have to c-bet. If the board comes such that it's likely to have hit their range, just give up. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the button. Even if you c-bet on a board of, say, undercards, you still have good equity against his range. Much of the time he will still fold, and when he does call, sometimes you might still have the best hand (if he has some kind of middling straight draw or something), and sometimes you'll have anywhere from 6 to 9 or more outs (depending on straight and flush draws) - and two cards to get there.

-S

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Make it $5. You are dominating their range here.

[/ QUOTE ]True, but I think dominating their range is not the only issue here.

For instance, if MP3 had 100BBs, making it $5 has more of a chance of us getting HU with an SPR of ~9, which is not going to be good at all for my hand. In that case I would be more inclined to simply complete unless I had a better handle on villain's betting tendencies.

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of options here, but that's what makes the game fun, right?

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely- that's why I thought this was an interesting PF question.

I appreciate your feedback and willingness to answer questions in the forums. I think some of us (me at least- lol) will be stumbling around with SPR and misapplying a little, so it's good to get feedback on the thought process. Also, thanks again for the book. I hate playing OOP so much that I tend to fear building pots with hands like this out of the blinds, but now I am seeing and taking advantage of opportunities I've missed before with a lot more confidence because I have a solid plan going into battle.

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hate playing OOP so much that I tend to fear building pots with hands like this out of the blinds, but now I am seeing and taking advantage of opportunities I've missed before with a lot more confidence because I have a solid plan going into battle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the book yet, but I definitely echo your fear. I would usually limp here (maybe it's a leak), just because at 25NL or 1/2 Live, no one is folding out and people are going to call a raise, so I often end up OOP with two mediocre broadways in a multiway raised pot <--- not great even if you hit a card. I even hate playing AK from the blinds.

One advantage of limping or just checking AJ/AQ in the BB is that when you hit your ace, you get tons of action from donks behind you and you can just c/c them to the river while dominating their hand, because often they'll have ace-rag.

Re: 100NL- AJs in SB, SPR Question
 

please tell me what an SPR is ?

Thanks