PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $35.85
UTG+1: $14
CO: $24.65
Button: $25.10
Hero: $24.25
BB: $43.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/kd.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/qh.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/qs.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/ks.png
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $0.75</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/3s.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/3d.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/9s.png ($2.25, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks.

Turn: http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/kc.png ($2.25, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $0.75</font>, BB calls, Button folds.

River: http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-conte...c-cards/jh.png ($3.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $8</font>.
Uncalled bets: $6.5 returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: $6.75

I bet the turn pretty smallish as I have just about every hand crushed/drawing dead. Same reasoning for my river bet.
What´s my line? Fold, call or raise?

I was totally lost on that river. Is it really possible he´s waiting for the river to raise 99xx? Would he call my turn bet with JJ or a flush draw hoping to improve on the river and/or steal the pot if a scare card hits? Or did he slowplay 33xx all the way? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

wait, you folded?!?!

Shove the river.

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

I would have bet more on the turn. If he has a flush draw, straight draw, K9, or a random 3 he'll call a bigger bet anyway. I'd at least bet $1.50.

On the river I would would bet more like 3 (edit: assuming original pot size, I would bet more had I bet more on the turn) and shove over his reraise. It isn't worth worrying about it if he has 33.

Also, coming from a holdem background, I usually reraise this preflop against a button raise. Is that good, bad, neutral?

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
wait, you folded?!?!

Shove the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i didn´t fold. i called the river.

as both of you advocate shoving - why would i do that? isn´t that "i´ll pretend i´m not interested and check behind on the flop, call the turn" line what everybody would do with quads? imo, there are only two likely holdings - 99xx or 33xx.

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wait, you folded?!?!

Shove the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i didn´t fold. i called the river.

as both of you advocate shoving - why would i do that? isn´t that "i´ll pretend i´m not interested and check behind on the flop, call the turn" line what everybody would do with quads? imo, there are only two likely holdings - 99xx or 33xx.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is PL25 (which is full of total droolers), and you led so weak into him, he could have tons of hands other than quads and 99--JJxx, 39xx, 3Jxx, even TQ or a naked 3. You absolutely have to shove here. You're missing tons of value if you don't.

And to Ricky Bobby, yes a reraise pf would have been good with a hand this strong.

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

people are stupid. if you have a read that this dude only raises with the immortal nuts, then fold. there is one hand that beats you. you beat a lot of other hands. 99, JJ, TQ, 93, J3, K3.

I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm saying villain could very well be. don't give him too much credit.

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

^^^

types slow.

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
people are stupid. if you have a read that this dude only raises with the immortal nuts, then fold. there is one hand that beats you. you beat a lot of other hands. 99, JJ, TQ, 93, J3, K3.

I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm saying villain could very well be. don't give him too much credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didn´t have any reads on villain - i have like 10 hands with him. alas, this whole hand looked VERY fishy to me and hence i only called on the river. that "check behind flop, call turn" [censored] really screamed "i have a monster". so its only about him, i.e. wether he perceives his hand correctly or wether he is willing to go broke with 2nd nuts there. i agree theres ton of bad players at plo25, but i´m sure they would play almost any full house very, very fast.

KKQQss isn´t a reraising hand imo, even less so out of position.

POKERSTARS GAME #13136410560: OMAHA POT LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/11/09 - 14:32:04 (ET)
Table 'Atria II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Poker_syd ($14 in chips)
Seat 2: goed leven ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Raipe44 ($25.10 in chips)
Seat 4: automatiques ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 5: RAM1T ($43.85 in chips)
Seat 6: berns18 ($35.85 in chips)
automatiques: posts small blind $0.10
RAM1T: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to automatiques [Kd Qh Qs Ks]
berns18: folds
Poker_syd: folds
goed leven: folds
Raipe44: raises $0.50 to $0.75
automatiques: calls $0.65
RAM1T: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [3s 3d 9s]
Poker_syd is sitting out
automatiques: checks
Poker_syd leaves the table
RAM1T: checks
Raipe44: checks
*** TURN *** [3s 3d 9s] [Kc]
automatiques: bets $0.75
RAM1T: calls $0.75
Raipe44: folds
*** RIVER *** [3s 3d 9s Kc] [Jh]
atilla1968 joins the table at seat #1
automatiques: bets $1.50
RAM1T: raises $6.50 to $8
automatiques: calls $6.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RAM1T: shows [3h Th 3c 4c] (four of a kind, Threes)
automatiques: mucks hand
RAM1T collected $18.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19.75 | Rake $0.95
Board [3s 3d 9s Kc Jh]
Seat 1: Poker_syd folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: goed leven folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Raipe44 (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: automatiques (small blind) mucked [Kd Qh Qs Ks]
Seat 5: RAM1T (big blind) showed [3h Th 3c 4c] and won ($18.80) with four of a kind, Threes
Seat 6: berns18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

[ QUOTE ]

i didn´t have any reads on villain - i have like 10 hands with him. alas, this whole hand looked VERY fishy to me and hence i only called on the river. that "check behind flop, call turn" [censored] really screamed "i have a monster". so its only about him, i.e. wether he perceives his hand correctly or wether he is willing to go broke with 2nd nuts there. i agree theres ton of bad players at plo25, but i´m sure they would play almost any full house very, very fast.

KKQQss isn´t a reraising hand imo, even less so out of position.

POKERSTARS GAME #13136410560: OMAHA POT LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/11/09 - 14:32:04 (ET)
Table 'Atria II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Poker_syd ($14 in chips)
Seat 2: goed leven ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Raipe44 ($25.10 in chips)
Seat 4: automatiques ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 5: RAM1T ($43.85 in chips)
Seat 6: berns18 ($35.85 in chips)
automatiques: posts small blind $0.10
RAM1T: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to automatiques [Kd Qh Qs Ks]
berns18: folds
Poker_syd: folds
goed leven: folds
Raipe44: raises $0.50 to $0.75
automatiques: calls $0.65
RAM1T: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [3s 3d 9s]
Poker_syd is sitting out
automatiques: checks
Poker_syd leaves the table
RAM1T: checks
Raipe44: checks
*** TURN *** [3s 3d 9s] [Kc]
automatiques: bets $0.75
RAM1T: calls $0.75
Raipe44: folds
*** RIVER *** [3s 3d 9s Kc] [Jh]
atilla1968 joins the table at seat #1
automatiques: bets $1.50
RAM1T: raises $6.50 to $8
automatiques: calls $6.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RAM1T: shows [3h Th 3c 4c] (four of a kind, Threes)
automatiques: mucks hand
RAM1T collected $18.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19.75 | Rake $0.95
Board [3s 3d 9s Kc Jh]
Seat 1: Poker_syd folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: goed leven folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Raipe44 (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: automatiques (small blind) mucked [Kd Qh Qs Ks]
Seat 5: RAM1T (big blind) showed [3h Th 3c 4c] and won ($18.80) with four of a kind, Threes
Seat 6: berns18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be results oriented, you were unlucky to be against the nuts in this hand, but in similar circumstances against a random PL25 player who you have no reads on, the villain's range includes TONS of hands that are not 33 (many people will slowplay boats/trips at this level) and that will stack off. If you're always afraid of the nuts you're not going to get anywhere in this game.

Also, KKQQss is a absolute monster and can be reraised from any position, though just calling with it OOP isn't horrible.

Re: PLO25: Nut full house faces pot size river raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Don't be results oriented, you were unlucky to be against the nuts in this hand, but in similar circumstances against a random PL25 player who you have no reads on, the villain's range includes TONS of hands that are not 33 (many people will slowplay boats/trips at this level) and that will stack off. If you're always afraid of the nuts you're not going to get anywhere in this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

i´m not results oriented. i knew i would never fold this, thought about what he might have and went with my "read". i´m actually pretty happy with losing the minimum as stacking off in this situation would have sent me on uber tilt for sure.

you´re right though. 99 % of the time, i just shove in this spot.