Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

I have a really tough time in these spots. Your comments on this 6 hand quiz would be much appreciated...

Tourney is the UB $200k Guaranteed.

1) Blinds 150/300 - MP3 just sat down, CO is 19/16/1.5

MP3 (t5095)
CO (t16950)
Button (t5725)
SB (t2880)
Hero (t8120)
UTG (t21765)
UTG+1 (t2980)
UTG+2 (t11795)
MP1 (t6145)
MP2 (t7010)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
5 folds</font>, MP3 raises to t850</font>, CO calls t850, 2 folds</font>. Hero?

2) One lap later...

MP3 (t5045)
CO (t22820)
Button (t5700)
SB (t4830)
Hero (t6870)
UTG (t24345)
UTG+1 (t15270)
UTG+2 (t11095)
MP1 (t6695)
MP2 (t5710)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
6 folds</font>, CO raises to t825</font>, 2 folds</font>. Hero?

3) Blinds now 200/400.

MP3 (t4820)
CO (t23720)
Button (t6100)
SB (t4230)
Hero (t4745)
UTG (t25495)
UTG+1 (t17920)
UTG+2 (t9645)
MP1 (t6945)
MP2 (t4760)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t400, UTG+1 calls t400, 6 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t1600) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets t1200</font>, UTG+1 calls t1200, SB folds. Hero?

My initial plan was to get my chips in against one player but after this action what can I beat?

4) Blinds at 200/400. Villain is 17/15/5.5

UTG+2 (t4920)
MP1 (t30670)
MP2 (t4900)
MP3 (t23995)
Hero (t3995)
Button (t28445)
SB (t8920)
BB (t14325)
UTG (t8695)
UTG+1 (t3560)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
1 fold</font>, UTG+1 raises to t1900</font>, 4 folds</font>.

5) Very next hand. Villain is 28/14/1.6

UTG+1 (t4870)
UTG+2 (t30620)
MP1 (t4850)
MP2 (t23945)
Hero (t3945)
CO (t28395)
Button (t8670)
SB (t13875)
BB (t8645)
UTG (t4610)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
1 fold</font>, UTG+1 raises to t1110</font>, 3 folds</font>.

6) Blinds now 300/600. No info on Villain.

MP3 (t9840)
CO (t36765)
Button (t8925)
SB (t27545)
Hero (t4720)
UTG (t22570)
UTG+1 (t7370)
UTG+2 (t10785)
MP1 (t10975)
MP2 (t4830)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
UTG+1 calls t600, 1 fold</font>, MP1 raises to t2800</font>, 5 folds</font>.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

1) Fold

2) Shove

3) Fold

4) Fold

5) Flip a Coin

6) Fold

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Fold

2) Shove

3) Fold

4) Fold

5) Flip a Coin

6) Fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

Hand 1:, fold... 7/8 time you will have to give this up on the flop. Next best option is push, worst option is call IMO.

Hand 2: Shove, You have FE here, and you probably are the best if you get called.

Hand 3: As played fold... may be a jam preflop with 1200 in dead money. probably will get looked up tho.

Hand 4: Fold, IMO I would rather be first 1 into a pot, so I have some fold equity. Here you are going to a show down hoping to be at best a coin flip.

Hand 5: Shove, 88 is a premium hand when you have less then 10 BB.

Hand 6: Fold, same argument as hand 4, and looking to have much the worst of it.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

1-FOld
2-SHove
3-Fold
4-FOld
5-FOld- Close but Villain in this hand is ahead way too often. I'd call an open push but I think fold to this raise
6-FOLD

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

fold - I don't actually think call is as bad as people are making it out to be though.
shove
fold
fold
shove 88 is way ahead of anyone who raises 14 percent pf's opening range
fold

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

1) Fold. I might consider a call if MP3 was deep stacked and not raising somewhere around 1/6th of his stack from that pos.

..any interesting hands during this orbit that got you from 8120 to 6870? or did you end up calling the 44?..

2) Shove. It's gonna cost him 5,595 to win 6,870, I don't see him calling you light.

3) Easy fold. There's so many hands that are beating you here, and the utg limp and utg+1 limp helps narrow their ranges to something that had to hit this flop. (any reads on these two? that could help)

4) Fold. He's opening for almost 5x, I think it's an overweighted coinflip situation.

5) Fold. With his stack size, his range isn't big enough for this to be a +ev shove. If utg+2 made the raise, I might consider shoving.

6) Throw it away. No way this is a profitable shove with that action before you. Especially on ub since it's so much easier to ninja the shortstack than some other sites.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

fold
shove
fold
fold
shove all day
fold

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

Why are you guys all folding hand 1 getting 4-1 immediate odds? Calling is super standard for me. I didn't even consider a fold when I read the hand and am really surprised that I'm the only one who calls here.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

I call hand 1 as well.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

call, shove, fold x4. 88 is certainly not a premium vs UTG+1.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you guys all folding hand 1 getting 4-1 immediate odds? Calling is super standard for me. I didn't even consider a fold when I read the hand and am really surprised that I'm one of the only ones who calls here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

Thanks for all the input. I'm really grateful. To answer some of your questions...

1) I called for set value. Folded flop. Other two players got all-in. First raiser showed QTo (a busted str8 draw). PF cold caller showed a set of 3's. If I had pushed, they would have folded I think.

2) Folded

3) Folded. The flop bettor to my left was Aaron Kanter. I figured one of those guys had an ace or a made hand. They checked it down, both turned over a King and I proceeded to vomit.

4) Folded

5) Folded. Should have shoved

6) Folded. I guess a no-brain fold but I was getting short.

When do you guys start looking for a reason to roll the dice as opposed to waiting for a better spot? 20BB, 15BB, 10BB, 5BB? When is it too late and you're better off busted and moving on to the next event?

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the input. I'm really grateful. To answer some of your questions...

1) I called for set value. Folded flop. Other two players got all-in. First raiser showed QTo (a busted str8 draw). PF cold caller showed a set of 3's. If I had pushed, they would have folded I think.

2) Folded

3) Folded. The flop bettor to my left was Aaron Kanter. I figured one of those guys had an ace or a made hand. They checked it down, both turned over a King and I proceeded to vomit.

4) Folded

5) Folded. Should have shoved

6) Folded. I guess a no-brain fold but I was getting short.

When do you guys start looking for a reason to roll the dice as opposed to waiting for a better spot? 20BB, 15BB, 10BB, 5BB? When is it too late and you're better off busted and moving on to the next event?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling hand1 for set value is wrong here, you need much bigger odds than that.

55 should of been a shove, COs range is huge here.

you have &lt; 10 BB, 88 is a great hand for this situation

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

1 Calling is very standard play. People seem to think it cost 850 to call. Since one is in BB one already has 300 in - so its only cost 550 and one can win 15 times that with a good flop - its a very easy call.


2 Re-raise to 2200. Shove the flop. Aka go-n-go

3 Fold

4. Fold - very easy.

5 Shove

6 Fold

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

[ QUOTE ]
1 Calling is very standard play. People seem to think it cost 850 to call. Since one is in BB one already has 300 in - so its only cost 550 and one can win 15 times that with a good flop - its a very easy call.


2 Re-raise to 2200. Shove the flop. STOP -n-go

3 Fold

4. Fold - very easy.

5 Shove

6 Fold

[/ QUOTE ]

SF[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

1. call/fold/shove is my order of preference (this one is a tossup)
2. shove/fold (moderately standard)
3. fold (very standard)
4. fold (easiest of all of these...no fold equity and odd raise in front from EP)
5. shove (not too bad, gamble it up with a little fold equity)
6. fold (also very easy)

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1 Calling is very standard play. People seem to think it cost 850 to call. Since one is in BB one already has 300 in - so its only cost 550 and one can win 15 times that with a good flop - its a very easy call.


2 Re-raise to 2200. Shove the flop. STOP -n-go

3 Fold

4. Fold - very easy.

5 Shove

6 Fold

[/ QUOTE ]

SF[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

wouldn't stop n go be "call the raise, shove the flop?" there's no stop about "raise to 2200".

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold - I don't actually think call is as bad as people are making it out to be though.
shove
fold
fold
shove 88 is way ahead of anyone who raises 14 percent pf's opening range
fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree.

Hand 1 = great pot odds, fold is more conservative and chip saving, though.

I think anyone considering shoving 3 and 4 is out of their minds.

Hand 5 shove&gt;&gt;fold&gt;&gt;&gt;call.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

Here's my thoughts on folding (rather then calling)

If you have to fold if you don't hit your set, and IF AND ONLY IF you get paid off 1/3 of the time you hit your set you have about a SB in +EV. That is if you NEVER lose with a set. The problem is if you are getting called when you hit your set there is a fraction of the time that the caller is on a draw or has you beat, and you are going to lose.

Probably the best +EV is to push this hand. The raiser is from relatively late position, cold caller could have half a hand (QTs or something), and your push carries a significant amount of FE.

25 BB I'm waiting for a better spot tho.

Re: Small Pairs & Weak Suited Aces - To Move or Not to Move...
 

[ QUOTE ]
When do you guys start looking for a reason to roll the dice as opposed to waiting for a better spot? 20BB, 15BB, 10BB, 5BB? When is it too late and you're better off busted and moving on to the next event?

[/ QUOTE ]

Roll the dice at 15 to 20 BB... later in the tournament, everyone is at 20 BB or less, so you should be more conservative, earlier in the tournament, let the flipping begin. Also, I try not to be the caller of a race. Always try to put someone to a decision, as you gain FE. Sometimes it won't work out tho. You have 88 in the BB and the CO pushes, and you have 20 BB left, you have to play.