Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

in a $200/$400 O8 game on FTP.

+ some possible NW drama

didn't catch the hand, but apparently there was weird play during a hand that led to stevesbets quitting the game and this conversation ensuing:

tommyboy83: i folded a 3 o nteh flop cuz the way the betting went i thought someone had to have a 2
Dealer: BigBadMomma69 shows a pair of Tens, for high
Dealer: BigBadMomma69 shows 8,5,3,2,A, for low
Dealer: tommyboy83 shows two pair, Queens and Twos, for high
Dealer: tommyboy83 shows 8,6,5,3,2, for low
Dealer: tommyboy83 wins the high pot ($2,200) with two pair, Queens and Twos
Dealer: BigBadMomma69 wins the low pot ($2,199.50) with 8,5,3,2,A
Dealer: Hand #4322981310
Dealer: tommyboy83 has 5 seconds left to act
Dealer: Hand #4322981310 has been canceled
tommyboy83: what was up with that hand caddy
tommyboy83: what did u have
tommyboy83: i know u can play but it was very fishy
BigBadMomma69: play me hu
BigBadMomma69: i'm playing 3 tables
stevesbets (Observer): LOL
BigBadMomma69: you called me a cheater
stevesbets (Observer): obv he ignores
BigBadMomma69: play me hu
stevesbets (Observer): and jsut says play me hu
tommyboy83: i said it looks like its possible
tommyboy83: never said u couldnt play
tommyboy83: just cuz someone is good means they cant cheat?
BigBadMomma69: i have integrity
BigBadMomma69: neither of which you two do
stevesbets (Observer): LOL
stevesbets (Observer): i have never cheated a person in my life
BigBadMomma69: I said what I had
BigBadMomma69: QQJ9
BigBadMomma69: with diamonds
stevesbets (Observer): and you cap the trun with that
stevesbets (Observer): no
BigBadMomma69: I didn't think anbout low
tommyboy83: i have plenty of integrity ive played poker from the ground up for 4 years never colluded never ran out on adebt
BigBadMomma69: because of too many games
tommyboy83: its very possible and in that case im sorry
BigBadMomma69: now let's play
stevesbets (Observer): i woudlnt be surprised if it was caddy and nw on the two accts
tommyboy83: dont wanna gamble vs u can find a better spot
BorgataBrenda1 (Observer): who is th other one in question... love you too?
stevesbets (Observer): yes
BigBadMomma69: unless you join someone elses hu game
BigBadMomma69: you nor steve
BigBadMomma69: are ever playing without me again
BorgataBrenda1 (Observer): i iddnt see the hand but love you too plays pretty @!&!ed up
BigBadMomma69: i don't care if it's 1/2
BigBadMomma69: $1/$2
stevesbets (Observer): his play was weird
stevesbets (Observer): but mommas was weirder
stevesbets (Observer): unless they were colluding
BigBadMomma69: i must be some sort of genius
tommyboy83: u cant get mad at me for tryin to protect myself ive been cheated in teh past
BigBadMomma69: to play 3 games
BigBadMomma69: 2 high speed
BigBadMomma69: and collude with someone
tommyboy83: im just saying it looked fishy
BigBadMomma69: +
BigBadMomma69: I'd obv collude
tommyboy83: if u had qqj 9 and support will show us that
BigBadMomma69: At 200/400
tommyboy83: then no big deal i can see that
BigBadMomma69: Rather than the countless itmes
BigBadMomma69: I've been in 1k/2k
BigBadMomma69: You guys are paranoid idiots
BigBadMomma69: And just made an enemy
stevesbets (Observer): LOL
stevesbets (Observer): dude
tommyboy83: lol
BorgataBrenda1 (Observer): who r u bbm?
stevesbets (Observer): no way you folded q high flush on the river
stevesbets (Observer): i'll bet you on that
tommyboy83: i dont see why its insulting for me to try and protect myself i dont know u i only know of u
tommyboy83: and im down 30k today so it could be tilt talk
Dealer: Hand #4322999560
Dealer: Hand #4322999560 has been canceled
stevesbets (Observer): thats what they do
stevesbets (Observer): they get angry
stevesbets (Observer): and they start insulting
BigBadMomma69: the fact that either of you
BigBadMomma69: would even consider it
BigBadMomma69: speaks volumes of your opinions of me
BigBadMomma69: and therefore
stevesbets (Observer): i dont know u
BigBadMomma69: makes me have a vendetta
stevesbets (Observer): ive never met you
stevesbets (Observer): i jus tknow ur friend
tommyboy83: well bet fold river in that spot just seems odd
BigBadMomma69: I didn't even see the chat
tommyboy83: lol
stevesbets (Observer): and i KNOW he owuld collude
BigBadMomma69: until people aim'ed me about it
stevesbets (Observer): i KNOW he would
BigBadMomma69: since i had too mayn tables open
stevesbets (Observer): what does that tell you
tommyboy83: vendetta over tryin to make sure were not gettin cheated out of 100s of thousands
BigBadMomma69: I wasn't paying attention, and thought I had nut high
stevesbets (Observer): lol exactly
tommyboy83: i lost 200k here in jan feb playin these games
BigBadMomma69: I got screwed in the hand
tommyboy83: so im gonna protect myself
BigBadMomma69: yes
BigBadMomma69: go ahead
BigBadMomma69: and talk to support about it
BigBadMomma69: that's fine
BigBadMomma69: but to air it out
tommyboy83: well if u had qqj9 with diamonds no big deal and i apologize like i said
BigBadMomma69: where we have observers
BigBadMomma69: is the worst type of ###& talk
BigBadMomma69: do it in private
BigBadMomma69: no #@$!ing etiquette with you guys
tommyboy83: i wouldnt even know how to contact u
BigBadMomma69: + who I am
BigBadMomma69: No
BigBadMomma69: Just email supports
BigBadMomma69: With your suspicions
stevesbets (Observer): dude
BigBadMomma69: I wouldn't even hear about it
stevesbets (Observer): your good friend
stevesbets (Observer): aske dme to collude before
stevesbets (Observer): then i see that
stevesbets (Observer): wtf am i supposed to think
stevesbets (Observer): nm your just talking like an idiot
stevesbets (Observer): talking about vendettas
stevesbets (Observer): poitnless talking to you

and ending with an 8k freezeout:

tommyboy83: alright lets play im bored 8k freezeout

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

He is a stand up man, and would never cheat/collude. The end.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

what was the name of the 4th player/account in the game?

Besides Caddy, Stevesbets and Tommyboy I mean.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

HH please.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
what was the name of the 4th player/account in the game?

Besides Caddy, Stevesbets and Tommyboy I mean.

[/ QUOTE ]

loveyoutoo

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
what was the name of the 4th player/account in the game?

Besides Caddy, Stevesbets and Tommyboy I mean.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think stevesbets thinks its neverwin. obviously pure speculation. i dont think mckenna(madcaddy, bigbadmomma, etc) would collude but who knows with neverwin

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

stevebets tried the same crap at a campus game last year. whenever he goes on tilt or loses, someone has to be cheating according to him.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
stevebets tried the same crap at a campus game last year. whenever he goes on tilt or loses, someone has to be cheating according to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

He's just a pos.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

JAZZY WTF, STOP PRETENDING YOU [censored] KNOW ME AND MAKING UP STORIES ABOUT ME, YOU ARE SUCH A RETARDED PIECE OF CRAP.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
He is a stand up man, and would never cheat/collude. The end.

[/ QUOTE ]
this confirms it. /thread

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

im 75% sure its collusion. all you can do is not play them. spicolli rings a bell....

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

here is the hand in question, if u look at it u can see why me and stevesbets thought it was suspicious, what are your guys opinions, by the way after talking to caddy i believe he didnt collude and was just playin too many tables and possibly misread his hand

Full Tilt Poker Game #4322884644: Table Mescal (6 max) - $200/$400 - Limit Omaha H/L - 5:32:29 ET - 2007/11/28
Seat 1: BigBadMomma69 ($25,435.50)
Seat 2: flops of glory ($8,000), is sitting out
Seat 3: FakeSky ($7,500)
Seat 4: loveyoutoo ($27,059.50)
Seat 5: stevesbets ($16,682)
Seat 6: tommyboy83 ($14,236)
BigBadMomma69 posts the small blind of $100
FakeSky posts the big blind of $200
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tommyboy83 [Ac 3s Kh Jc]
loveyoutoo raises to $400
stevesbets calls $400
tommyboy83 calls $400
flops of glory stands up
BigBadMomma69 raises to $600
FakeSky folds
loveyoutoo raises to $800
stevesbets calls $400
tommyboy83 calls $400
BigBadMomma69 calls $200
*** FLOP *** [5d Tc 8d]
BigBadMomma69 bets $200
loveyoutoo raises to $400
stevesbets calls $400
tommyboy83 folds
BigBadMomma69 raises to $600
loveyoutoo raises to $800
stevesbets calls $400
BigBadMomma69 calls $200
*** TURN *** [5d Tc 8d] [7c]
BigBadMomma69 checks
loveyoutoo bets $400
stevesbets raises to $800
BigBadMomma69 raises to $1,200
loveyoutoo raises to $1,600
stevesbets calls $800
BigBadMomma69 calls $400
*** RIVER *** [5d Tc 8d 7c] [Jd]
BigBadMomma69 bets $400
loveyoutoo raises to $800
stevesbets calls $800
BigBadMomma69 folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
loveyoutoo shows [Ad As Ah 3d] a flush, Ace high, for high and 8,7,5,3,A, for low
stevesbets mucks
loveyoutoo wins the high pot ($6,298.50) with a flush, Ace high
loveyoutoo wins the low pot ($6,298.50) with 8,7,5,3,A
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $12,600 | Rake $3
Board: [5d Tc 8d 7c Jd]
Seat 1: BigBadMomma69 (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 2: flops of glory is sitting out
Seat 3: FakeSky (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: loveyoutoo showed [Ad As Ah 3d] and won ($12,597) with HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 8,7,5,3,A
Seat 5: stevesbets mucked [8c 6d 4d Qc] - HI: a flush, Jack high; LO: 8,7,6,5,4
Seat 6: tommyboy83 (button) folded on the Flop


another thing to note the reason i originally thought some collussion to go by is you can see i had the last ace in my hand, and the other 3 were in loveyoutoo's so the 3 bet preflop was another somewhat suspicious spot

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

wow my god, that hand looks sooooo suspicious. now i can see why u guys called him out that just doesn't even make sense.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

a. im confused by what stevesbets had...

b. that hand is somewhat shady and collusion in O8 is much more rampant than in holdem games. him folding on the river is pretty shady IMO, but im not sure id go all out accusing him or anything.

edit to add that ive played caddy heads up before for a significant number of hands and from what he said he seemed like a pretty stand up guy... obviously probably doesnt mean much but still...

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

lol at Stevebets hand

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol at Stevebets hand

[/ QUOTE ]



but he was double sooooooted

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

the fact that the alleged colluder is urging him to email support makes me think he's legit. If you had colluded a lot, wouldn't you want to discourage an investigation?

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

I think it's funny how big a point people are making of the river fold facing one bet.

To someone like stevebets it's inconceivable that you can lay down the 3rd flush for one bet in a big pot, even though given that action no sane player would raise river without it given Caddy's preflop and turn action...

Also people are very mentally lazy when it comes to allegations of collusion. Sure this hand looks strange, because it is strange.

But how does this strangeness suggest collusion?

Either you think they were trying to jam steve out or they were trying to extract value from him.

If it's jamming him out, what hand are they trying to get steve off? (Especially since steve doesn't have a fold button.)

If they're jamming him in, why would they think they have > 66% equity between them when one guy has unimproved AA, A3, and nfd and the other would in theory have little or nothing extra.

Or maybe you think the collusion just comes in in saving one bet on the river but otherwise playing your hand straightforwardly...

It's not collusion give me a break.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

They don't only need X>66% equity because of fold equity. And there perceived fold equity certainly is higher due to the fact that someone holds AAA in their hand.

Undoubtedly this could be coincidence, but surely your claim that it CANNOT be collusion is assailable.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol at Stevebets hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
They don't only need X>66% equity because of fold equity. And there perceived fold equity certainly is higher due to the fact that someone holds AAA in their hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but like I said, when colluders are jamming they are either trying to get a fold or trying to get more money in. It can't be both simultaneously.

[ QUOTE ]

Undoubtedly this could be coincidence, but surely your claim that it CANNOT be collusion is assailable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing I never made that claim.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
But how does this strangeness suggest collusion?
It's not collusion give me a break.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol at Stevebets hand

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

pretty sure if he was colluding he would call there instead of fold...

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But how does this strangeness suggest collusion?
It's not collusion give me a break.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


Ok that's step 1.

Now quote what you said I said. Then compare.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

In formal logic Cannot and it's not are the same statement. An example would include; he cannot be guilty or he's not guilty. It means the same thing. So do yourself a favor and DO NOT reread your statement because your wrong.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

At least we know that the online games that high still have their retards.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
pretty sure if he was colluding he would call there instead of fold...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong, as one player has the nut high hand and the second nut low hand, so calling potentially loses them 200 dollars when steve has A2, if they were in fact working together.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
In formal logic Cannot and it's not are the same statement. An example would include; he cannot be guilty or he's not guilty. It means the same thing. So do yourself a favor and DO NOT reread your statement because your wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]


Oh you got me, I forgot that statements on internet message boards should be read as exercises in formal logic rather than by the conventions of standard English usage.

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pretty sure if he was colluding he would call there instead of fold...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong, as one player has the nut high hand and the second nut low hand, so calling potentially loses them 200 dollars when steve has A2, if they were in fact working together.

[/ QUOTE ]

are u an idiot?
obv it woul,.d be -EV financially, but it would also reduce their exposure of looking like colluders

Re: Stevesbets and Tommyboy accuse MadCaddy of cheating (TL;DR)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pretty sure if he was colluding he would call there instead of fold...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong, as one player has the nut high hand and the second nut low hand, so calling potentially loses them 200 dollars when steve has A2, if they were in fact working together.

[/ QUOTE ]

are u an idiot?
obv it woul,.d be -EV financially, but it would also reduce their exposure of looking like colluders

[/ QUOTE ]

If he called there and showed down something other than QQJ9 w/ two diamonds then the case for collusion would be a lot stronger imo.