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-   -   bit of a weird valuespot HU (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=556424)

luegofuego 11-28-2007 01:42 PM

bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
i raise KK otb. bad passive fish station calls. flop AT6 two hearts. i check he checks. turn 7o. he pots i call. river som complete blank, 6 perhaps. he checks. do i have a valuebet?

luegofuego 11-28-2007 01:43 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
stacks ~$1,000

Darkfolder 11-28-2007 01:45 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
I think I check.

luegofuego 11-28-2007 01:47 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
i dont care. i care about WHY.

btw maybe i should have described him beter. hes not a compulsive checkcaller. he does bluff occasionally and he does bet for value. hes just generally terrible and not aggressive enough and way too loose OOP.

Hebel 11-28-2007 01:48 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
If hes passive id be really afraid of the turn pot on a meaningless card. I vote check.

Unknown Soldier 11-28-2007 01:49 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
range is prob really polarized


action is messed up btw. positions keep changing

FionnMac 11-28-2007 01:52 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
i'd bet something retarded like 1/4 pot, he's not folding a pair and he's probably never bluff raising either

TheWorstPlayer 11-28-2007 01:52 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
yes, bet against a T and lower pocket pair. if he had an ace, he'd often either reraise preflop, bet the flop, or bet the river. the fact that he did none of these things makes me think you're good often enough to have a value bet against a loose fish.

Darkfolder 11-28-2007 01:56 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
Even if hes a fish he probably isnt calling with worse hands often enough to make a bet profitable. Maaaaaaybe if u bet something really small.

RollinHand 11-28-2007 02:02 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
i'd bet something retarded like 1/4 pot, he's not folding a pair and he's probably never bluff raising either

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, agree 100%.

bigt439 11-28-2007 02:30 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

Nick Royale 11-28-2007 02:38 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]
I kinda agree vill's range is pretty polarized between bluffs/s-bluffs and Ax. Potting a marginal hand like Tx on the turn doesn't make sense and probably nothing a passive player would do.

pokeriseasy 11-28-2007 02:41 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]
I kinda agree vill's range is pretty polarized between bluffs/s-bluffs and Ax. Potting a marginal hand like Tx on the turn doesn't make sense and probably nothing a passive player would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised at the random stuff bad players do HU. I def bet this river, probably like 3/5 pot, he'll call with Ts a lot, and even some worse pairs. He'll have an A sometimes but not enough to really be concerned.

bigt439 11-28-2007 02:41 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]
I kinda agree vill's range is pretty polarized between bluffs/s-bluffs and Ax. Potting a marginal hand like Tx on the turn doesn't make sense and probably nothing a passive player would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree strongly. i dont know what else to say really than this has not been my experience at all.

Nick Royale 11-28-2007 02:42 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
I think villain has air very often here. I think checking is best because the way he played the hand seems more like Ax or air than Tx imo. If he's loose enough to call down with a pair less than T then sure, you can v-bet.

Nick Royale 11-28-2007 02:45 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]
I kinda agree vill's range is pretty polarized between bluffs/s-bluffs and Ax. Potting a marginal hand like Tx on the turn doesn't make sense and probably nothing a passive player would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised at the random stuff bad players do HU. I def bet this river, probably like 3/5 pot, he'll call with Ts a lot, and even some worse pairs. He'll have an A sometimes but not enough to really be concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but to me it seems like this random stuff is most likely made by air rather than Tx. If we think he calls down with less than Tx then it's an obv v-bet.

My hu experience is limited though so I might not at all understand the problem here.

TheWorstPlayer 11-28-2007 02:46 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
he's not 'bluffing'. he's 'betting because he has a pair'. and on the river he wont be 'snapping off a bluff' he'll be 'calling because he has a pair'. stop trying to think like fish, you guys arent good at it.

tuuufts 11-28-2007 02:48 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
pretty standard b/f, i dont think it's close esp against a "bad passive fish station"

tuuufts 11-28-2007 02:49 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
and people who are saying range is "polarized" between aces/bluffs dont play HU much

FionnMac 11-28-2007 03:05 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
he's not 'bluffing'. he's 'betting because he has a pair'. and on the river he wont be 'snapping off a bluff' he'll be 'calling because he has a pair'

[/ QUOTE ]

don't agree with TWP often, but this is bang on.

fees 11-28-2007 03:11 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
i'd bet something retarded like 1/4 pot, he's not folding a pair and he's probably never bluff raising either

[/ QUOTE ]

Pasterbator 11-28-2007 03:28 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]
I kinda agree vill's range is pretty polarized between bluffs/s-bluffs and Ax. Potting a marginal hand like Tx on the turn doesn't make sense and probably nothing a passive player would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree strongly. i dont know what else to say really than this has not been my experience at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, i am with bigt here. Are you guys being serious? The fish is potting an A, a T, a mid pp, and air after you check the flop. Thats not a polarized range.

Its the kind of stuff that they do.

As the hand was played, i would def bet 1/3-1/2 pot on the river and expect him to call with a T a fair amount of time.

I also expect to valuetown myself a bit, but not often enough for a check to be better than a bet.

Irish Mafia 11-28-2007 03:50 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

Unknown Soldier 11-28-2007 04:41 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]

makes it sound like i know what I'm talking about ldo


info >> thin value here

Ship Ship McGipp 11-28-2007 04:42 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
polarized

Ship Ship McGipp 11-28-2007 04:42 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
merged

Unknown Soldier 11-28-2007 04:49 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
anyway, betting 1/4 is just dumb, if you guys insist he has a T/pp a lot he'll call a lot more then 1/4 pot with similar frequencies. Saying he'll never bluff raise is dumb too.

obiedman 11-28-2007 04:52 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
anyway, betting 1/4 is just dumb, if you guys insist he has a T/pp a lot he'll call a lot more then 1/4 pot with similar frequencies. Saying he'll never bluff raise is dumb too.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i'm not sure why we'd be betting 1/4 of the pot. he's not folding a pair to anything < PSB so we might as well try to squeeze all the value out of him that we can

TheWorstPlayer 11-28-2007 04:53 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
If it's on UB (or maybe FTP) pot it. If it's on a site with no pot button, bet a bit over half pot, I'd say. 1/4 seems like you're losing a lot of value to me.

Unknown Soldier 11-28-2007 04:56 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
yeah gd point, I'm used to playing on sites w/o a bet pot btn. If this is on ft, def value bet.

Doesn't mean we should pot mash though

jkkkk 11-28-2007 04:57 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
I think you get looked up often enough by a ten for this to be profitable, its also good for meta.

Bikini Wax 11-28-2007 05:18 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
I bet this 100% of the time, if I see he c/c's a weak ace in that spot I adjust my value betting range in other hands

terp 11-28-2007 07:14 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
he's not 'bluffing'. he's 'betting because he has a pair'. and on the river he wont be 'snapping off a bluff' he'll be 'calling because he has a pair'. stop trying to think like fish, you guys arent good at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

really good point. just get one level above these guys and play accordingly. playing live has really helped me with this because the fish talk out loud about everything they do and i can just sit and listen and learn.

probably slightly more Ax than Tx hands in his range but enough other pairs (7x/88/etc) that we are good above the breakeven 50% point. i don't think this kind of player will do anything but call or fold here, as well.

you'll get looked up fairly light the way the hand went down, so go ahead and bet

AAismyfriend 11-28-2007 07:28 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
range is prob really polarized



[/ QUOTE ]

wtf why do people love to say this so much... his range is not polarized.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

RockyElsom 11-28-2007 07:35 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
Using to word polarized is so polarizing your advice.

d2themfi 11-28-2007 07:59 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
half pot

aislephive 11-28-2007 08:41 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
Easy bet imo, I don't think donks really ever check Ax here that often. They'll make some blocking bet pretty much always. His hand to me looks like air or a middle pair type hand which will be confused by your line and look you up a decent amount.

easycall 11-28-2007 09:18 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
south poled his range, imo

RiverHebrew2 11-28-2007 10:04 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
2/3 pot I'd say.. all draws missed, Tx will call ur bet, maybe 7x.

HEK 11-28-2007 11:00 PM

Re: bit of a weird valuespot HU
 
by the river he knows you don't have an ace so by betting you get a lot more hands to look you up that you beat than you are beaten by. After all you would never value bet a ten here (according to villain).


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