my last post about this ever i promise.
 

if you do not want to read about my 2 options please hit the back button.

as i have mentioned many times in the [censored] thread, i have a job. it pays $55k, but the main thing it has very good prospects, in that it is with one of the top accounting firms in uk (and globe), it will pay about $100k after 3 years, then $150k after about 5 years, then slowly rise with then. in 15 years if i did well i could be on $500k and rising.

but this means spending my years going to work week after week. good opportunity is to work abroad after 3 years.

i could leave firm after 3 years, and be able to take a year off, play poker for a year, see how that goes, if it goes badl then go work at a bank or something, earn $100k a year, this would be a guarentee pretty much.

basically the argument is that i've done relatively well throughout my exams since age 16 till now (23) and all of that would have been kinda pointless if i then never profit from it. whereas if i stuck it out for 3 years, i could go to most countries in the world and get a good job.

but then there is playing poker as a job. i've never enjoyed it more, i've never felt i've been playing better, and i genuinely think i am at last a pretty good player.

but what do i do in 3 years say? if it all goes according to plan and i make say $500k a year for the next 3 years, i'd have approaching $2m in the bank. but what then? do i still wake up and sit in front of a laptop? will i be happy with this?

sorry, i know ive gone over all this before, but this is a pretty massive decision, and i just dont know what to do. in 10 years time would i look back on and think i made the right decision?

i just cant see myself being that happy with a normal hard working job, but then will i have massive regrets if i [censored] up at poker and my life goes pear shaped.

i guess it's a classic bigger risk = much better outcome or much worse outcome. am i willing to take the gamble?

also ill have right in front of me what would of happened had i not of taken the gamble - my brother. he qualified as an accountant, doesnt like the job but it pays well, he'll likely go on to be a very successul businessman, likely earning $250k+ in due course and have a great house, go on cool holidays etc. but then he does say to me how bored he finds it.

sorry i know this is a strategy forum, but i figure a lot of people in the forum can understand the situation.

also i am not moaning about this, i know i am lucky to have 2 potentially prosperous options, but as with anything, its not what the options are, its about making the right decision.

thoughts much appreciated.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

also part of me thinks, well, if i can play a 1-2 evenings a week, a day in the weekend, ill hopefully be winning a decent amount.

but then i really do not like having a job at all.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

i've been following this saga for a while and it seems to me that you're looking for a "logical" way to make this choice, like some kind of life ev calculation or something.

this doesn't exist (aside from a comparison of earnings estimates, which obviously you can create yourself).

i'm pretty sure this is a decision you need to make independently. every person is different, and no 2p2er can provide "correct" answers for these things.

with that said, if the decision is up to me, i choose poker in an instant. you really seem to dread/despise this job. this is evident to me in your posts, and it's my understanding that this kind of stuff doesn't always come across well in writing.

keep in mind that when you have a job like this, you have no choice but to spend a huge percentage of your waking hours at the office. sure, you'll have "a great house" (probably nothing that wouldn't be obtainable through poker), but you'll only enjoy it on the weekends and at night after work (a time during which you'll be dead tired anyway).

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It's better to have a job you like than one that pays lots of money I think.

the time you spent on education is a sunk cost, there's no downside to 'wasting' it.

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I think estimating the poker route at 500k a year may be false optimism on the back of a good month... Seriosuly, not many are pulling in those kind of results.

Anyway, I had same decision a year ago, chose poker fwiw, and now im ballin in sydney while my peers are revising for their professional exams..

Theyll almost certainly be in a better position than me when we're 30 though.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

I went the professional route. It nearly killed me.

I've been playing poker for almost a year and it's been grand. The game itself has been fine, I'm improving, I'm earning well, blah blah blah who cares. I didn't leave my job and walk away from 8 years of education for the money or the work. This summer I took almost three months off to be with my wife and daughter. I ditch the tables on a nice afternoon to stroll down to my favourite coffee place for an hour. On Tuesday we had linguini with lobster in cream sauce, paired with a fantastic Italian sparkler (not as balla as it seems, btw: lots of fishermen connections for free lobster). In a month we're going on a cruise.

Through all these times, I never once frantically pawed through my memory trying to figure out what I might have forgotten to do. I never wonder which client is going to come down with an emergency that needs me now now now. I don't want to puke every time the phone rings.

I used to be surrounded by people, with very few exceptions, who were unhappy in their jobs and their lives. Not any more. I may not be able to play poker forever for the kind of money I make now, but accepting life as it is today was one of the best decisions I made. Oh, and investing the bulk of my income for the future lets me sleep at night.

Make your choice based on the life you want, pure and simple. Yes, considerations for the future, and for the viability of a poker income, should have a lot of sway. However, anyone who enters a career he knows he's going to hate, solely for the benefits that that job is going to bring him sometime years from now, is fooling himself.

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don't quit your job. it doesn't sound like you can just get back on the path you're on if you quit and poker doesn't work out (for any reason). i only agree with "going pro" if it doesn't burn too many bridges.

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Major downsides for me are:

Variance: I have trouble not letting downswings affect the rest of my life.
Work from home: sometimes I feel like I never leave the house. I have a tendency to be idle and poker facilitates this.
Stability: No job would be completely stable, but the whole poker landscape could change very rapidly.


Also, I think you know that your estimated poker earnings are at the far end of the curve. However, your estimated career earnings that you're comparing to are also at the far end of the curve, so I guess that's fine.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

Tough spot.

I was in a similar position to you and I chose poker, mainly because I don't think 9-5 5 days a week with 23 days holiday a year for 40 years constitutes much of an existence. If the worst came to the worst, I'd rather grind out SSNL than work in a real job. Very few jobs out there are actually enjoyable and regardless of the promotion opportunities, I'm sure most jobs in the financial world get very mundane very quickly.

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running hot and then quitting your job is not a very good idea

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i'll say quit your job, because that's what you want people to say.

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b/f imo

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[ QUOTE ]
i'll say quit your job, because that's what you want people to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

i quit my job as a lawyer 18 months ago to play poker. i really feel like i made the right decision. even though i went to law school for five years and spent two years working, i found my line of work excruciating and i pretty much hated life.

i am definitely burning bridges in the sense that my legal career is going to be pretty much dead in a few years. but one difference between me and you i guess is that i was a really lazy student, and i found the work so boring that i was lazy at my job too and likely would have been a very modest achiever in the legal world if i stuck with it, so i dont really think i was giving up as much in terms of potential earnings.

from a quality of life perspective there is no comparison. i still wake up and laugh at how good ive got it. getting paid 20k a month to play a game and pretty much do whatever i want. it really is a fairytale existence for me.

at the end of the day though its up to you. some ppl are better suited to play poker full time, and others just arent cut out for it and would be much better suited to a regular job. gl whichever way you choose to go.

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[ QUOTE ]
don't quit your job. it doesn't sound like you can just get back on the path you're on if you quit and poker doesn't work out (for any reason). i only agree with "going pro" if it doesn't burn too many bridges.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

thanks for all the replies, this really is pretty tricky. one part of me thinks it would be a dream lifestyle (play 30 hours a week poker, earn loads, invest, earn more, go out whenever, play golf whenever, go on holiday whenever) but the other part of me imagines having a breakeven month or two, going to play at the tables and seeing no edge, thinking how much i'd [censored] myself over.

i remember back in january when i was really mulling over whether to accept the contract, or whether to ask them if i could defer. my problem then? whether online would still be profitable in september. if i'd know i'd of killed the game from late sept-late oct, i'd of definitely asked to defer.

i will ask them to see if i can defer, the only problem is for them is a) it looks pretty bad what id be asking to do and b) there is no guarentee i'd go and work for them anyway and c) they hold all the cards, they owe me nothing.

i do agree with the sentiment of not burning bridges, but when the bridge is leading to a life of boredom, i think it could be worth burning. but if it leaves me on a island of under-achievement if poker goes badly, then it [censored] me over.


thanks for all the replies, ive read them all and appreciate them all. i'll go ask them on monday/tuesday about possibility to defer. i assume being honest would be best here, saying that i have a really good opportunity to make myself very financially secure and i would like a year to give it a try. they v.likely say '[censored] off, you have only been here 2 weeks' but worth a try i guess.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

You're 23? I'm 23 and most of us aren't prepared to do what you're trying to do.

If you're questioning yourself then you're not ready to take the leap. Take a couple more years and reassess. I'm thinking along your lines, but in a different country.

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[ QUOTE ]
also part of me thinks, well, if i can play a 1-2 evenings a week, a day in the weekend, ill hopefully be winning a decent amount.

but then i really do not like having a job at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is huge, you might be able to do 1/2 of the poker hours you would without the job and still maintain the great opps and avoid poker burnout

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for all the replies, this really is pretty tricky. one part of me thinks it would be a dream lifestyle (play 30 hours a week poker, earn loads, invest, earn more, go out whenever, play golf whenever, go on holiday whenever) but the other part of me imagines having a breakeven month or two, going to play at the tables and seeing no edge, thinking how much i'd [censored] myself over.

[/ QUOTE ]

For what it's worth I definitely only see it as a quality of life quest except that I admit I'd like the security but more that housing costs are astronomical where I live. Other than that I live a fairly frugal lifestyle and generally have no wish to spend boat loads of cash. If I could do anything for the rest of my life earning 80k (not much thought has gone into this figure) a year but love the lifestyle it gave me then I'd look no further. I'm just not sure that poker fits the lifestyle bill for me.

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As said before everyone is different but ive done your route ( how long is how quickly you get fed up with the mudane drag of it all )and its ok for a while.
However the freedom to do as you please outways security in my book . You are 23 you can always get back on the ladder if you need to.
On the other side freedom etc is fair fair better appreciated after doing the job "thing" day after day
Good luck with your choice def a tough one

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[ QUOTE ]
in 15 years if i did well

[/ QUOTE ]

who wants to work for 15 years? come on now

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I think I'll put this into my blog, but here is my 2c.

The dream of being a professional poker player is glamorous for actually quite few. It is hard work and a downswing can mean that you have to sell your car (or worse). To their credit, a few people have made that lifestyle and done very well. With a conundrum of having a well-paying job that is secure, I give some advice.
You said that in a couple of years, you will be earning solidly 6 digits. I say, keep your job. But don't stop there. Work hard for a couple/few years (day job AND poker) and build some good, sound investments so that you have a passive income. A passive income is money that you get without doing any active work for it. Once you have a comfortable income that you can pay your daily bills from, retire! Become a retiree that plays poker.
So if you take a turn for the worse in poker and decide that it isn't for you, you still have some money to ride you through it and some good experience to get a good job back. Then you can find what you want in life. And srsly, being 23 and making all of those decisions now is not something that you really have to worry a lot about. Take life in stride. Take your lumps. Have a good time. Cheers.

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cannot read it is too long [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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If you're going into the job with this attitude there is no way you're gonna progress through the ranks as you seem to think you automatically will. You sound like a typical naive 23-year-old who hasn't been in the real world yet. Everyone that age or younger was the same. Making 500k a year at poker is laughable. You've gotta be bankrolled to handle the swings if you plan on playing stakes high enough to generate that kind of bank. Maybe you can. I don't know your situation or skill level. You're not gonna know if you have the right temperament to be pro until you play hour after hour, day after day for your livelihood. In some ways it takes a twisted, hyper-competitive, persistent individual with an undying self-belief. I don't know if you're tough enough given your background.

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john, i know your on a huge heater atm, try to think back to your last bad run and remeber how [censored] it was before making a big descision.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

How long have you been playing seriously and putting in the hours? Sounds like you think that poker is a way to print easy money since you're on a heater and on top of the world atm. But most long time grinders seem to disagree and talk what a pain in the ass it is and how the lifestyle sucks (sitting on your a** for many hours with no human interaction, developing bad eating/no exercise habits, etc.)

People think that a 'regular job' is a grind. But it isn't. If you find the material interesting, it will probably be a grind for entry level kids, but it becomes more challenging and intellectually stimulating and once you really move up, it's really like running your own business in the sense that you will be dealing with clients and cutting business deals for your company.

Do your best in your job first, poker will always be there as a backup. If you hate your job in 4 years, you can always switch, but at that point you will have a ton of cash and investments that will give you ultimate flexibility to do whatever.

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I don't know you at all, but I can tell you that the only value in becoming a poker pro is entertaining us. Don't become an accountant or wahtever boring ass high paying job you are going to get if you regret it all your life, but at the same time if you spend frugally you can "retire" by 30.

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*grunch*

its only 3 years lol and its not like you can't ever play poker again.

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[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth I definitely only see it as a quality of life quest except that I admit I'd like the security but more that housing costs are astronomical where I live. Other than that I live a fairly frugal lifestyle and generally have no wish to spend boat loads of cash. If I could do anything for the rest of my life earning 80k (not much thought has gone into this figure) a year but love the lifestyle it gave me then I'd look no further. I'm just not sure that poker fits the lifestyle bill for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't really matter but the start of this was supposed to read more like: For what it's worth I definitely only see it as a quality of life question rather than a money one except that, while I admit I'd like the security, the housing costs are astronomical where I live.

Seems it's too late to edit.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

JK - about taking like 3-4 years to get your MBA while u play poker full time?

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If I could snap my fingers and make it happen, I'd go back to job with poker on side, versus poker full-time. While I've technically made more in 10 months of 2007 than my prior annual salary, I made much more when I had both a salary and poker on the side, and my life was much less stressful with a regular paycheck. Getting back into my field will be challenging with a year of poker on my resume, and I imagine it would be ten times worse for you.

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dd,

what was your profession?

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[ QUOTE ]
it pays $55k, but the main thing it has very good prospects, in that it is with one of the top accounting firms in uk (and globe), it will pay about $100k after 3 years, then $150k after about 5 years, then slowly rise with then. in 15 years if i did well i could be on $500k and rising.


thoughts much appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are an idiot if you dont stick with this job?

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Expecting to make 100k 3 years in and 150k 5 years in is pretty laughable generally. I mean sure their is the potential to make that but thinking of it as an assurance is pretty far from being true.

I think way to many people automatically assume they'll be making ridiculous money with real jobs by the time theyre 30 while in reality its pretty possible to still be making <100k

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How good are you at poker? And I don't mean pretty good, kind of good, I mean what do your stats over a long period tell you? Talking about this decision is useless without specific information as to where your poker is at. Also, I want to comment on the topic of being a poker pro, which I am. The job on a scale of 1-10 can be a 1 or a 10 it really depends on you. Nobody makes you eat unhealthy food or sit around all day getting no excersise. It is a fact that some people do succumb to that lifesyle but you def can play poker, live a healthy life and have plenty of money and freedom to do what you want.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
also part of me thinks, well, if i can play a 1-2 evenings a week, a day in the weekend, ill hopefully be winning a decent amount.

but then i really do not like having a job at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is huge, you might be able to do 1/2 of the poker hours you would without the job and still maintain the great opps and avoid poker burnout

[/ QUOTE ]

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john, you're severly over estimating how much you can make from poker.

Also, you've probably been thinking about your serious business career since you were 10 years old. You really need to chill out at some stage or you'll have a mid life crisis.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

thanks for all the replies, they certainly do help me try and figure this out.

the underlying problem is that i hate getting up in the morning, i hate accountancy and i hate knowing that i could be doing something i enjoy far more and would make me a lot more. however, i like the idea of being in a well paid, well respected job, with a ton of financial security. however, to get there, i have to go through a lot of boredom. i've been spoilt the last 5 years, ive had it so easy, and this is a massive wake up call. a big part of me wants not to wake up and carry on what im doing. and the other problem is that regardless of how well paid the job ends out being, i likely still will hate waking up, hate going to work, hate the long hours, hate hate hate. like a lot of us, i've had it so easy the last 4-5 years that this really sucks.

if im going to stick with the job i need to decide now. i have an exam in 8 days time which im already behind for (hopefully catch up all of today) and ideally id pass all my exams first time. if im going to stick with it, i've got to be committed to it and be willing to spend a lot of time studying, so in my mind now i need to decide it is what i should do, as otherwise i'll end out failing the exams.

also grindplz, the pay structure for a chartered accountant at big 4 is roughly 55k - 65k - 70k - from now on it depends whether you go into banking or industry, but roughly then 100k - 120k - 140k, though it really does depend how much your willing to sell your soul, 150k afer 5 years isnt that unrealistic (my bro is being asked to apply for job at that pay level 5 years after starting becuase they think he has the neccessary skills). they pay you well becuase youve had to spend 3 years of boredom studying towards an accountancy qualification.

as for online, i think 400k would be a realistic annual target. the obv concern is how long this would last for. but 500k i think is doable if i put in long hours. also i would try really hard to get into a weekly pattern, devoting time to eating well, exercise, going out etc (but i know this is so much harder than reality as i tried doing this for the last 4 years and it never worked).

thanks again for the replies.

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[ QUOTE ]
i hate getting up in the morning, i hate accountancy and i hate knowing that i could be doing something i enjoy far more and would make me a lot more.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol. dude, this decision seems pretty clear.

another thing to consider is the upcoming legislation/legalization. what will happen is anyone's guess, but it could be a decent idea to see what happens with that prior to dumping your job.

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[ QUOTE ]
upcoming legislation/legalization. what will happen is anyone's guess, but it could be a decent idea to see what happens with that prior to dumping your job.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, but as a Uker i can't see anything bad really.

im going to try and stick out the job for a while.

after all, i hated cramming every time i had my uni exams becuase i had been to 10% of the lectures, twice i wanted to pack uni in becuase of the [censored] exams. i survived the exams, and so pleased i didnt quit (although 3 weeks cramming every few months vs 3 years of work is very different).

end of the day, to get your rewards, you have to work hard. just like poker, the amount of crap we have to go through in terms of going through the learning process and then the constant variance.

but then part of me feels ive gone through the 3-4 year process of playing online, feel ive now become a much better player than i used to be, and now im not acting on this, instead turning to a job, where im having to start from scatch again.

Re: my last post about this ever i promise.
 

how many hands do you think you could play per month with the job?

how many would you play per month without it?

and to what extent do you think being tired from the job would affect your win rate?