PETA documentary last night
 

I figured someone would post about that here. I assume some people saw it. Maybe I'm blind and missed the topic?

One of the controversies, of course, is her comparisons between slavery, holocaust victims and our treatment of animals. Without giving my opinion on that, I don't believe that the documentary would have been made and shown on HBO without that type of controversy. I also don't believe that those offended by these types of comparisons would have been swayed in the direction of PETA had she taken a gentler direction. Tactically, therefore, it was the right move on her part, no?

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

I didn't see it, but it wasn't an unquestionable tactical decision. I guess it ultimately is for the best, since without the shock value of those comparisons, I agree, it may not have been aired, and even if it were, it probably wouldn't have a thread here. Still, making outlandish analogies like that only cements the mind of the rational viewer that PETA is a bunch of uncompromising whackjobs, not people who have a few reasonable points. People who might have been willing to compromise on some issues, or who might choose to respectfully (and tacitly) disagree with them may be moved to actively oppose or thwart their efforts.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

This issue can't be too controversial for the lounge, can it?

I'm disappointed. Wouln't we all kill countless random humans for the safety of our dogs or houses or cars?

I plan on owning pets, eating meat and taking full advantage of the benefits of animal research until I breathe my last breath. Still, for a variety of reasons, I respect the hell out of PETA and more importantly what I believe they have and will accomplish.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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This issue can't be too controversial for the lounge, can it?

I'm disappointed. Wouln't we all kill countless random humans for the safety of our dogs or houses or cars?

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Do I get to pick which humans?

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I plan on owning pets, eating meat and taking full advantage of the benefits of animal research until I breathe my last breath.

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http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...m/thumbsup.jpg

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Still, for a variety of reasons, I respect the hell out of PETA and more importantly what I believe they have and will accomplish.

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From their president:

When we were in Savannah, she told me, in the most unequivocal terms, that the world would be an infinitely better place without humans in it at all.

Or:

Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses.

Haven't seen the documentary, but I have no respect for PETA, and can't imagine that would ever change.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

To judge the efficacy of outlandish statements comparing one's agenda to issues surrounding the holocaust, we need to get into far touchier subject matter than this. This is as close to nothing at all as possible.

Let's look at anti-abortion proponents instead. They call abortion a holocaust, compare abortion doctors to Josef Mengele, and spout numbers like 6 million dead in an effort to make comparisons to the Holocaust of WW2. Some of them openly support the murder of abortion doctors. A great many support the harassment of not only workers in the abortion clinics, but their children, and such behavior has frequently included the literal stalking of children from their schools to homes, berating them with anything from insults to threats against both their parents and themselves. (So much for Islam being the violent and intolerant religion, eh?) Some laymen and preachers themselves have indirectly comforted the most extreme members of the anti-abortion sects by refusing to condemn murder of abortion clinic personnel, and insisting such acts will continue.

If we want to seriously discuss moral issues and the way metaphors are used, it's no use to retreat to the back yard and politeness over a few soft cocktails. One must grab the bull by the horns. It is not PETA activists that are crazed or tolerant of craziness -- it's you and me, buddy. We like our own craziness quite a lot. So enormously and murderously that we turn a blind eye to horrific moral transgressions we ourselves support, at least, by turning a blind eye to it and dissembling about it.

A great many of us have zero ground to stand on when attacking PETA, or really anybody about anything. A murderous spirit is so common to the human heart that trying to assign it to one group or another as if to point it out as something special or extraordinary is at the very best naive and at the very worst reiterates its obvious profitability. Perhpas it is the human capacity for murderous judgment that should be held up for scrutiny, rather than how that judgment manifests itself.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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Perhpas it is the human capacity for murderous judgment that should be held up for scrutiny, rather than how that judgment manifests itself.

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While I think you and I agree that we all have our dark sides, for the most part society trains us to keep them in check. The examples you use are the extreme fringes that act outside of societal norms.

I would include PETA in that extreme.

P.S. I'm about to make the Thanksgiving grocery list, considering getting in the shower and heading to the store. This weeks schedule may drive me over the edge and onto the fringe. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Actually, if it were to come to pass, I think I'd opt for a nice psych ward where the drugs flow freely and one can sleep all day.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

I knew i liked you blarg.

In the end it really is just a motorcycle ride.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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This issue can't be too controversial for the lounge, can it?

I'm disappointed. Wouln't we all kill countless random humans for the safety of our dogs or houses or cars?

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The pet you love and a unknown stranger have just fallen off a bluff into the ocean and you only have time to save one of them.

Do you save your pet or the stranger?

~ Rick

PS I'm guessing this has been done before, perhaps on your Dad's SMP forum, but I just had to ask anyway.

Edit to add I realize I may be questioning something said very much tongue in cheek.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

And so we stand on zero gorund ... scrambling for something to hold on to. Even if it be a grocery list.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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And so we stand on zero gorund ... scrambling for something to hold on to. Even if it be a grocery list.

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True. Probably not my finest moment for rational thought in my sleep deprived state. It might not change my view, but I'd more than likely be more subtle at another time. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

I wouldn't have to think about it. In the situation you describe where I instinctively stretch my arms out to save a life, I wouldn't even see the human being.

Part of this answer comes from personal experience regarding my dog and the attachment I feel to her. She was attacked by a large pitbull mix last year. I consider myself a real pussy. I've never been in a real fight, but my instinct was to jump on top of the pit and put my fingers in it's mouth. Pure instinct.

But maybe this isn't an act of love for a life force. How would I react if someone tried to steal my car? Maybe I would be stupid enough to put my fingers in their mouth. Instinct. I would say such an act is unthinkable, but I would have said the same thing regarding my dog if you asked me before that incident.

Getting back to this whole PETA thing. How many of us consumers wouldn't be willing to pay just a little bit more for a pound of animal flesh if we could be certain the animal wasn't "tortured" in that short period of time it had while waiting for us to eat it? And, sure, "torture" means different things to different people. But, by your definition, would you pay 50 cents more per pound to avoid the "torture" of the animal you eat? I'm pretty sure the loungers would. Not so sure about the golfers.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

When our dog, dhar, was attacked by the pit, I was incapacitated. Mat dove under my jeep coming back up with the pit by the back of the neck and our dog at her throat. This image haunts me.

Mat’s complete disregard for his own safety to save the life of our dog was driven by an adrenalin rush of super human strength to save her life. Dhar’s own self defense mechanisms kicked in and she sacrificed a front tooth in the brawl.

In the meantime, I only half lived as a spectator.

To get back to the point, when he says, “I wouldn’t even see the human being”, to me that means that his respect for life is not colored by the conventional definitions of life. He didn’t even see the canine in this case. What he saw was simply the love for life.

When it comes to peta, I think that what has happened is that it takes a huge action to get a reaction. We are so used to wearing leather and eating meat, it is so much a part of the normal lifestyle that it takes an act outside of the norm to make a slight impact on reconsidering the ethics of those beliefs.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

Oh Please! (I promise to try and restrain myself)

PETA IS a bunch of lunatic wackjobs and should not in any way shape or form be respected. The danger in thinking that they are only doing things and making statements that are outlandish is that you miss the fact that these idiots actually believe what they are saying. They are not doing it to "make a point". They really would put a stop to anything involving use of animals like eating or making clothes. This includes things very near and dear to me like hunting and fishing.

I will go on record saying I have zero respect for PETA. Should people be nice to animals, yes. Should we fight Pit bulls, No. Should we be allowed to hunt and fish, Yes. Should we be allowed to enjoys a great big juicy steak for dinner, Yes. Should we be allowed to wear leather shoes, Yes. PETA is an abomination or irrational, delusional idiots.

Here is the problem with having a rational discussion about PETA. Most people are fairly rational and normal with their views on animals. Some are at the edges in the extreme areas, lets say Peta on one end and Michael Vick and dog fighters on the other. I am not going to be able to convince a Peta person about anything. Rational arguement doesn't work because the idiots are not rational. Same thing with a dog fighter. They may realize that what they did was in fact illegal but deep inside they do not see that what they were doing was actually wrong. A rational person in the middle of all of this should be able to make some common sense decisions about how animals are treated but with PETA out there trying to convince people that things like Fishing should be stopped it muddys the water.

I didn't say all of that well but make no mistake, I do not in any way shape or form like or respect PETA. The only PETA I respect is "People for the Eating of Taasty Animals". Make no mistake, if you like your steaks and burger, If you want to wear leather motorcycle jackets, if you want to take a kid fishing some day, you cannot see PETA as anything other than a bunch of no good lunatic wack jobs.

Oh, Did I mention that I HATE PETA! Not much really makes me really see red but PETA gets my blood boiling.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

I think anyone suggesting we stop farming for meat and dairy is a whackjob, and actually will be effectively driving those species we derive food from into extinction. Humans do that, if some big lumbering animal is competing with us for food in some form, we kill it till there's no more. IF you don't believe me, google on the Pleistocene Extinction, and see exactly how long humans have been doing this - very effectively, I might add (though more often for ood than for competing resources, I'll add).

However, personal and institutional cruelty is really not acceptable. Even if you don't care about the animals, cultivating behaviours that desensitise people to suffering can't be good.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Getting back to this whole PETA thing. How many of us consumers wouldn't be willing to pay just a little bit more for a pound of animal flesh if we could be certain the animal wasn't "tortured" in that short period of time it had while waiting for us to eat it? And, sure, "torture" means different things to different people. But, by your definition, would you pay 50 cents more per pound to avoid the "torture" of the animal you eat? I'm pretty sure the loungers would. Not so sure about the golfers.

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I don't know, I think I'd be more willing to pay more for fruits and vegetables to provide a living wage and better working conditions to migrant farm workers before trying to tackle "humane torture" to cows.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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I wouldn't have to think about it. In the situation you describe where I instinctively stretch my arms out to save a life, I wouldn't even see the human being.

Part of this answer comes from personal experience regarding my dog and the attachment I feel to her. She was attacked by a large pitbull mix last year. I consider myself a real pussy. I've never been in a real fight, but my instinct was to jump on top of the pit and put my fingers in it's mouth. Pure instinct.

But maybe this isn't an act of love for a life force. How would I react if someone tried to steal my car? Maybe I would be stupid enough to put my fingers in their mouth. Instinct. I would say such an act is unthinkable, but I would have said the same thing regarding my dog if you asked me before that incident.

Getting back to this whole PETA thing. How many of us consumers wouldn't be willing to pay just a little bit more for a pound of animal flesh if we could be certain the animal wasn't "tortured" in that short period of time it had while waiting for us to eat it? And, sure, "torture" means different things to different people. But, by your definition, would you pay 50 cents more per pound to avoid the "torture" of the animal you eat? I'm pretty sure the loungers would. Not so sure about the golfers.

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I save my dog first if the drowning person is one of the PETA Wackjobs. After that for most people I do not hesitate to save the human being, unless I know they are child molestors or something of that sort. In that case I make sure to push them under and do everything I can to make sure my dog lives and they die.

As far as animals that are "tortured" for food goes, Most animals that are raised for food or milk or whatever are treated pretty darn well. I am actually convinced that cows would be extinct if it wasn't for humans. I have worked cows and know a lot of ranchers around here and they love their animals and take as good a care of them as they can. This is one of the reasons it is perfectly legal to shoot dogs that are harassing cows. It is also one of the reason why it is legal to shoot coyotes on sight and why wolves and Grizzly bears are not really welcome in a lot of places. I have watched ranchers as we work cows talk about nearly every cow and how long they have been on the ranch and it's almost is as if they are members of their family. I am sure there are some things that are done to animals that could be considered cruel but for the most part domesticated animals are pretty pampered.

Did I mention that I hate PETA!

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh Please! (I promise to try and restrain myself)

PETA IS a bunch of lunatic wackjobs and should not in any way shape or form be respected. The danger in thinking that they are only doing things and making statements that are outlandish is that you miss the fact that these idiots actually believe what they are saying. They are not doing it to "make a point". They really would put a stop to anything involving use of animals like eating or making clothes. This includes things very near and dear to me like hunting and fishing.

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But the beauty is that they don't necessarily believe what they espouse. They don't want you to use animals for anything, but if one of their lives were endangered:

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PETA Senior Vice President MaryBeth Sweetland on her use of insulin, which was tested on animals:

"I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufactured insulin that still contains some animal products -- and I have no qualms about it ... I'm not going to take the chance of killing myself by not taking insulin. I don't see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals."
--Glamour, January 1990

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So, no new medical research and no use of any animal products, except for her insulin because "I need my life to fight for the rights of animals." Screw her.

The poster above who said that there is no reason to respect PETA because they are totally inflexible is absolutely right. They are a bunch of lunatics (who support the Animal Liberation Front, a radical terrorist group).

We should do our best to try to minimize the suffering of the animals that we rely on for our needs, and yes, maybe we should pay a little more to ensure it. Naturally all medical research on animals should be halted and PETA members should be used instead.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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We should do our best to try to minimize the suffering of the animals that we rely on for our needs, and yes, maybe we should pay a little more to ensure it. Naturally all medical research on animals should be halted and PETA members should be used instead.

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Oh Hell Ya!!!

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

Shelly Berman, the old-time comedian (who plays Larry David's father on Curb), used to say that he had a joke in his act that involved throwing his dog and his mother-in-law out of his 5th story window. He says he used to get tons of letters denigrating him for harming the dog, but never one for harming his mother-in-law.

I know lots of people for whom their dog is the most important "person" in their life. if it makes life easier, more bearable, more enjoyable for them, that's great. Most of them have trouble relating to other human beings.

With all the problems that people have in the world, it has always bothered me that some people with energy, enthusiasm and empathy would channel those qualities into support for animals. I don't give a sh*t about a mink or a chicken or a dog. Like all good hypocrites, I would never hunt or intentionally harm an animal, but I have no problem doing nothing about animal experimentation or eating a dead chicken. And, likewise, I have no problem doing virtually nothing about human disease in Africa.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

Actually, this is why I do respect PETA and all of the people/ groups (whackos and not) who are out there trying to "tackle" societal issues related to the enviroment, poverty, war, homelessness, etc.

I'm basically a loser in this regard. I don't try to tackle anything. I manage a company that sells books about gambling and get to say penis on a message board.

To show that I am balanced on this issue, I think we should have a thread where people detail the most exotic animals they have eaten. Frog's legs are the extent for me. They did taste like chicken.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

fruit bat.

tastes a bit like chicken.


And for the squeamish, snails, heart, liver, sweetmeats and blood pudding too. Hey, I'm English, anything to break up the monotony of boiled pizzas.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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When we were in Savannah, she told me, in the most unequivocal terms, that the world would be an infinitely better place without humans in it at all.

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i dunno, i kind of agree with this point. that doesn't make me insane and i'm certainly not a fan of PETA.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

Spinal cord is probably the strangest thing I've eaten, it was just chewy and fatty.

All of the following were also on the menu at the kebab place I used to go to in Tel Aviv when drunk at 3AM:

Hearts - very tasty
Lamb's fat - tastes just like it sounds - chunk of grilled fat
Tonsils - Too drunk to remember clearly, also fatty.
Testicles - never available
Udder - never available

I also had fried sheep brains once, it looked like cauliflower and was mushy.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

Fresh raw liver pulled from an elk. Not bad but not really something I would go out of my way for. The liver part was fine but the veiney part was too chewy. I was going to do this with the last elk I got but I forgot. I have tried the raw deer liver and it was not nearly as eatable as the elk liver was.

I have also had fresh Rocky Mountain Oysters (Calf Testicles). We cooked them up once at a branding I was at. Fresh off the calf and put in a frying pan with Crisco. Cook until they start to swell up then pop the membrane with a knife and they explode kind of like Popcorn. Salt them up and eat discarding the membrane as it is really chewy.

There is nothing in this world that would make me want to eat brains! Just couldn't do it!!!!

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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Perhpas it is the human capacity for murderous judgment that should be held up for scrutiny, rather than how that judgment manifests itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I think you and I agree that we all have our dark sides, for the most part society trains us to keep them in check. The examples you use are the extreme fringes that act outside of societal norms.



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A large part of our society brings them into the norm through tacit approval of their methods. An abortion doctor gets shot, even at dinner in front of his family, or his receptionist gets blown up, her children stalked, or some poor woman gets screamed at, lunged at, and followed home, and it's, "Well, you know, those things will happen ..." As if it were falling rain, or a child burping at the dinner table. When was the last time you saw a child molester's actions given a shrug and a "Well, these things will happen ..."

These things will happen because our tacit approval shelters and emboldens the people who make them happen, and their supporters. If a thug or murderer is "on our side," the rules suddenly get changed. And then we pretend we play no part in things that happen largely because of us.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fresh raw liver pulled from an elk. Not bad but not really something I would go out of my way for. The liver part was fine but the veiney part was too chewy. I was going to do this with the last elk I got but I forgot. I have tried the raw deer liver and it was not nearly as eatable as the elk liver was.

I have also had fresh Rocky Mountain Oysters (Calf Testicles). We cooked them up once at a branding I was at. Fresh off the calf and put in a frying pan with Crisco. Cook until they start to swell up then pop the membrane with a knife and they explode kind of like Popcorn. Salt them up and eat discarding the membrane as it is really chewy.

There is nothing in this world that would make me want to eat brains! Just couldn't do it!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll see what happens after the inevitable zombie triumph.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fresh raw liver pulled from an elk. Not bad but not really something I would go out of my way for. The liver part was fine but the veiney part was too chewy. I was going to do this with the last elk I got but I forgot. I have tried the raw deer liver and it was not nearly as eatable as the elk liver was.

I have also had fresh Rocky Mountain Oysters (Calf Testicles). We cooked them up once at a branding I was at. Fresh off the calf and put in a frying pan with Crisco. Cook until they start to swell up then pop the membrane with a knife and they explode kind of like Popcorn. Salt them up and eat discarding the membrane as it is really chewy.

There is nothing in this world that would make me want to eat brains! Just couldn't do it!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll see what happens after the inevitable zombie triumph.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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I wouldn't have to think about it. In the situation you describe where I instinctively stretch my arms out to save a life, I wouldn't even see the human being.

[/ QUOTE ]

From my example it seemed pretty clear that the choice was between the pet you love and an unknown stranger. I thought it was obvious in the example you saw them both fall in so you would "see the human being".

Hmmm, I wonder if Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and/or your Dad would answer the question the same way?


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Part of this answer comes from personal experience regarding my dog and the attachment I feel to her. She was attacked by a large pitbull mix last year. I consider myself a real pussy. I've never been in a real fight, but my instinct was to jump on top of the pit and put my fingers in it's mouth. Pure instinct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry about your dog and the pitbull (and perhaps your fingers not knowing the outcome) but this isn't related to my original question.


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But maybe this isn't an act of love for a life force. How would I react if someone tried to steal my car? Maybe I would be stupid enough to put my fingers in their mouth. Instinct. I would say such an act is unthinkable, but I would have said the same thing regarding my dog if you asked me before that incident.

Getting back to this whole PETA thing...

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My question in the earlier post directly relates to the "PETA thing". Essentially it is in asking is a single human life more sacred and/or important than a single animal's life, even when you have an attachment to the particular animal and the human is a stranger? In the example you are in position to chose to save one life but not the other. You have to chose. But it's a lot easier than Sophie's Choice.


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How many of us consumers wouldn't be willing to pay just a little bit more for a pound of animal flesh if we could be certain the animal wasn't "tortured" in that short period of time it had while waiting for us to eat it? And, sure, "torture" means different things to different people. But, by your definition, would you pay 50 cents more per pound to avoid the "torture" of the animal you eat? I'm pretty sure the loungers would. Not so sure about the golfers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some loungers (e.g., my friend John Cole) golf so perhaps you should have said "country club, frat guy types". Kidding aside I don't have a problem with people using improved and more humane techniques in breeding animals for food and so on.

But I could never take PETA's extreme position. After all, if we didn't butcher cattle surely predators would without our protection (e.g. fences in grazing areas).

~ Rick

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
When our dog, dhar, was attacked by the pit, I was incapacitated. Mat dove under my jeep coming back up with the pit by the back of the neck and our dog at her throat. This image haunts me.

Mat’s complete disregard for his own safety to save the life of our dog was driven by an adrenalin rush of super human strength to save her life. Dhar’s own self defense mechanisms kicked in and she sacrificed a front tooth in the brawl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrote my second post in the thread without noting that this was directly related to Matt's response to my question.

Glad to see that Matt and your dog are OK. Matt did the right thing.

But the question I asked Matt still remains unanswered.

~ Rick

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
I save my dog first if the drowning person is one of the PETA Wackjobs. After that for most people I do not hesitate to save the human being, unless I know they are child molestors or something of that sort. In that case I make sure to push them under and do everything I can to make sure my dog lives and they die.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO your answer is moral but the conditions of the question specified you don't know anything about the person.


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As far as animals that are "tortured" for food goes, Most animals that are raised for food or milk or whatever are treated pretty darn well. I am actually convinced that cows would be extinct if it wasn't for humans.

[/ QUOTE ]

Add on toy poodles and so on and your point would be perfect.

~ Rick

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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I'm basically a loser in this regard. I don't try to tackle anything. I manage a company that sells books about gambling and get to say penis on a message board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't Mason your boss? I thought you are suppose to discourage the use of the "p" word.

Don't be afraid to delete this but I couldn't help but think of the the old days (i.e., the Abdul Jalib/Mason) spat.

~ Rick

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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To show that I am balanced on this issue, I think we should have a thread where people detail the most exotic animals they have eaten. Frog's legs are the extent for me. They did taste like chicken.

[/ QUOTE ]

snake soup
pigeon
eel

I'm sure there are more from China trips over 20 years.

The worst was baby eels that were slimy when I was pregnant. It was the only thing I couldn't choke down. I gagged, tried to hide it and spit it into my napkin.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]

These things will happen because our tacit approval shelters and emboldens the people who make them happen, and their supporters. If a thug or murderer is "on our side," the rules suddenly get changed. And then we pretend we play no part in things that happen largely because of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tacit approval? I'm pro-life and it's nonsense to accuse me of tacit approval. In fact I insist the government prosecute any murderer to the fullest extent of the law. How do abortion doctors come up twice for you in an animal rights thread?

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shelly Berman, the old-time comedian (who plays Larry David's father on Curb), used to say that he had a joke in his act that involved throwing his dog and his mother-in-law out of his 5th story window. He says he used to get tons of letters denigrating him for harming the dog, but never one for harming his mother-in-law.

[/ QUOTE ]

No fair again. The audience knew his mother-in-law and their mother-in-laws and mother-in-laws in general. But a good joke anyway.

I'd pick apart the rest of your post but "No Country For Old Men" finally made it down to a local theater so I gotta go before my friend gets here. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

These things will happen because our tacit approval shelters and emboldens the people who make them happen, and their supporters. If a thug or murderer is "on our side," the rules suddenly get changed. And then we pretend we play no part in things that happen largely because of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tacit approval? I'm pro-life and it's nonsense to accuse me of tacit approval. In fact I insist the government prosecute any murderer to the fullest extent of the law. How do abortion doctors come up twice for you in an animal rights thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, please disregard my post here and my question. Something is off. This really feels like bait. I don't have the time or energy to continue this vein of discussion. The T-Day pre-cooking has begun!

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

These things will happen because our tacit approval shelters and emboldens the people who make them happen, and their supporters. If a thug or murderer is "on our side," the rules suddenly get changed. And then we pretend we play no part in things that happen largely because of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tacit approval? I'm pro-life and it's nonsense to accuse me of tacit approval. In fact I insist the government prosecute any murderer to the fullest extent of the law. How do abortion doctors come up twice for you in an animal rights thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was clearly explained already, as you well know.

As you also know, I didn't accuse you directly of anything. I did accuse society as a whole, and I think any group that doesn't explicitly condemn its excesses is doing something very wrong and creating a nurturing environment for them. This would apply to cops not coming down hard on police brutality, churches not coming down hard on child molestation by priests, PETA activists equating animal and human life, and by the same token the anti-abortion movement for with great frequency over a span of decades being a threatening, violent bunch of thugs and sometimes worse.

I don't believe that being in a society, group, or mob absolves one of responsibility for what it does. Though there are others, we still have the freedom to act, however uncomfortable the prospect. Not doing so is taking a moral stand just as much as doing so would be. Responsibility can't really be escaped.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

Brains and intestine are common meat things in tacos, so I have tasted them. I like brains, but I don't like intestines (although intestines are way more popular).
I have eaten the eye of a fish (it tasted like calcium).
I have eaten the coagulated blood (this is called "morcilla" in spanish and it is commonly eaten in Argentina).
I am not sure now, but I think I have eaten testicles too. This is another dish which is not uncommon to eat in a taco. If I have eaten this, it was a long time ago.
One of my favorite things to eat, is the tongue. Whenever a foreign friend visits my hometown in Mexico, I make them taste tongue. Most people love it.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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I figured someone would post about that here. I assume some people saw it. Maybe I'm blind and missed the topic?

One of the controversies, of course, is her comparisons between slavery, holocaust victims and our treatment of animals. Without giving my opinion on that, I don't believe that the documentary would have been made and shown on HBO without that type of controversy. I also don't believe that those offended by these types of comparisons would have been swayed in the direction of PETA had she taken a gentler direction. Tactically, therefore, it was the right move on her part, no?

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As a guy that grew up on a a farm, and did work on that farm which included killing animals, I say PETA can go [censored] themselves. I own part of a farm now and continue to raise animals. There are a great many people in this country breaking their backs to put food on their own table and in doing so put food on everyone else's table. I realize that there are giant corporate farms and stockyards, but at the same time there are a ton of family farms in competition with those entities. Farms that have been raising and slaughtering animals for decades.

It's not animal torture, it's the damn life cycle. Animals die so that we can live. There's an enormous difference between slaughtering a race of humans out of spite and slaughtering a chicken so that you can have Sunday dinner and everyone knows it -- yet we allow PETA to get away with it for some reason. Disingenuous [censored] like that puts me on instant life-tilt - I'd love to see those PETA holier-than-thou [censored] say that [censored] to a farmer's face.

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

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These things will happen because our tacit approval shelters and emboldens the people who make them happen, and their supporters. If a thug or murderer is "on our side," the rules suddenly get changed. And then we pretend we play no part in things that happen largely because of us.

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Tacit approval? I'm pro-life and it's nonsense to accuse me of tacit approval. In fact I insist the government prosecute any murderer to the fullest extent of the law. How do abortion doctors come up twice for you in an animal rights thread?

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Actually, please disregard my post here and my question. Something is off. This really feels like bait. I don't have the time or energy to continue this vein of discussion. The T-Day pre-cooking has begun!

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Too late!

Re: PETA documentary last night
 

The link provided by entertainme is actually a very interesting read. The head of PETA sounds insane. She calls human breeding, vanity (she sterilized herself at age 22). They don't care about the feelings of people (the example about using Heston's disease as a tool for propaganda).
It is good to fight for animal rights so they don't get tortured, but going to the extreme of bombing research facilities is definitely wrong.
I have grown with pets (or as PETA calls them, companion animals) all my life, I currently have 4 dogs and I love them very much, so I care for animals, but doing research on animals is important for medicine.
The president of PETA from her quotes and from her actions seems on the fringe of society.