A river c/r bluff
 

I only have 150 hands on villain, but I have him at 19/18/2.5 in that span. He seems pretty decent.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $220.65
Hero (UTG): $223.85
MP: $142
CO: $1,260.95
BTN: $214.55
SB: $365.15

Pre-Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, MP folds, CO calls $8, 3 folds

Flop: ($19) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $16</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $44</font>, Hero calls $28

Turn: ($107) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($107) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $45</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $171.85 and is All-In</font>

I would have 3bet the flop with the NFD, but with this low flush draw I though I would just call as it's a smallish raise. Turn plan was c/f. Thoughts on the river play? or any of the earlier streets?

I will be away for the next few hours but will respond when I get back.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

This is totally read &amp; flow-dependant, but yes, this does seem good.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

i like it and hate it at the same time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

if villain is decent, he should assume that you're not going to count on him betting the river after he checks turn, he'd expect to lead out most of the time for value here -- so i'd expect him to look you up pretty light here

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

then again if you have been check-folding rivers like its your job this could be a perfect spot for a bluff.

like i said, totally flow-dependant.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

probably good, don't tank the river though

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

Villain seems capable of folding from the primary stats you give, but obviously this &lt;3 variance. I actually don't think you need that strong a read, as I see villain folding most all single Ts and possibly some overpairs. Even single jacks.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

i don't get it

i am sure you will get alot of folds but i think you'll get looked up too much. i can't see what you are representing

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

Villain never has an overpair here.

This is good, because he's probably going to get away from his 1 pair hands like Tx, and he has a lot of draws in his range.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

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i don't get it

i am sure you will get alot of folds but i think you'll get looked up too much. i can't see what you are representing

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JJ+/J9/JT

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

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i like it and hate it at the same time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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M2 the only call you will get is a winning one

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
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i like it and hate it at the same time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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M2 the only call you will get is a winning one

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hmm, I dunno, I think we might just get looked up by 53 here occasionally......

Op - I like it mainly because I don't think he has a whole lot a good % of the time

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

thanks for all the replies. to respond to a few of them:

I thought villain has a draw here a huge amount (often a draw that hit that J on the turn). I don't think he even bets a T on the river (and if he does he folds to the c/r) and figured he'd probably fold a J as well.

FWIW if I got to the river this way with a monster hand I think leading is bad and would generally always c/r.

That said my range of hands that c/r this river for value but also flat call the flop and check the turn is not enormous. I'd do it with QQ+ sometimes, JJ and JT and J9 often, a lower set somewhat less often. I think all this is fairly standard -- so while villain can certainly imagine this being a bluff, he also knows it's quite plausible for me to have a strong hand here too.

will post results in a bit...will let the morning crowd comment if they want first.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

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i can't see what you are representing


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Thats the problem I have with this hand. The more thinking the villain is the less i like this play

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

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... so while villain can certainly imagine this being a bluff, he also knows it's quite plausible for me to have a strong hand here too.

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Really? I don't see how u are repping a decent hand. On the other hand I wouldn't have the guts to call you with most possible villain holdings.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

i like it

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

i guess i'll explain my thought process. i think the villain has a better missed draw alot or a mediocre hand by the river. the only possible monster i could see the villain having is 7c8c.

and is bet size on the river, screams for it to be raised off.

the question is whether of not he'll fold JQ. and i think he will enough to make it profitable.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

*grunch*

if villain is thinking he should call you pretty lightly. If the turn was a whiffed c/r then why didn't you lead the river (from villains perspective)? Do you have any read as to villains bluff sizing? What is your image? I can't hate on your play too much because given villains stats, and how he played the turn I think you're folding out a better busted flush draw often.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

i guess it depends alot of villan is any good.

we can generally take out sets from the equation- i think most any set will bomb the turn from your typicaly 19/17.

i think he either has a draw, a pair like AT, or air (air equaling alot of things like pairs turned bluff like 33, etc) from the flop bluff raise.

the river is fine, i think that it looks like he's trying to get some thin(ner?) value with maybe something like a bluff (think AJ or QJ).

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

Calling the flop seems bad. I'd rather 4-bet than call.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

Thanks all for the responses.

Results:

He called pretty quickly with T9. Oh well.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

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*grunch*

if villain is thinking he should call you pretty lightly. If the turn was a whiffed c/r then why didn't you lead the river (from villains perspective)? Do you have any read as to villains bluff sizing? What is your image? I can't hate on your play too much because given villains stats, and how he played the turn I think you're folding out a better busted flush draw often.

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I didn't have any real reads other than that he seemed decent 19/18 or whatever. As for your question: if I had whiffed a turn c/r (from villain's perspective) I would still have gone for the river c/r (to snap off bluffs from busted draws and also hopefully he will VB most things he would have called a bet with anyway).

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

very good i should do it a lot more often.

Re: A river c/r bluff
 

flop is bad, river is good