Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

When coaches are fired and new ones hired, the trend of late seems to include a "debate of racism."

The Black Coaches Association always receives publicity this time of year that always ends with Athletic directors, school presidents, and universities being criticized for not including black coaches in the search for a new hire.

Most recently, Texas A&M's athletic director had to issue a statement explaing the interview process and why no black coaches were on his "short list" of possible hires.

I am not racist and think there are some great black coaches out there that are very deserving of head coaching jobs (ie Michigan's defensive coordinator and South Carolina's defensive coordinator), but the truth of the matter is "the cream will rise to the top." The Romeo Cornell's, Randy Shannon's, Dennis Green's, Sylvester Croom's will find a way on to search committes list if they are deserving and capable. This has nothing to do with the color of skin!

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

The B,

Thanks for this thread. I find it both interesting and thought provoking. Also let me point out that I really enjoy you as a poster. Keep up the great work. As for your view, I would challenge your certainty that "this has nothing to do with the color of skin." How exactly do you know this? It seems to me as if you have a preconceived viewpoint(racism is not the reason for a lack of black coaches) and you're reaching for points to support it when in reality you have no idea(nor do I or most on this forum). Regardless, I hope you really enjoy watching the bowl games this year. For us college football fans, its a magical time of year. Sit back and enjoy my friend- you deserve it.

Love,
Assani

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

I had the opportunity to speak with Ray Anderson, then VP of the Atlanta Falcons and now (I believe) NFL Executive VP of Football Operations. I asked him why the rule was in place that NFL teams had to interview a black coach. This was right around the time that the Lions were hiring Steve Mariucci - they knew he was the guy they wanted and didn't bother giving other interviews. Seemed to make sense. If the coach who you really want is available, why go through a bunch of token interviews?

What Mr. Anderson said made sense. It's not that a black coach will get interviewed, blow everyone away, and get hired. Of course, that might happen (Jim Mora, Jr. surprised the Falcons in his interview - I don't believe he was the front-runner at the time), but it typically won't if it's essentially a "courtesy" interview.

The importance of interviewing a black coach is for that coach's advancement down the road. When teams are looking to fill a coaching vacancy, they will talk to other executives and coaches around the league to get some input. If, say, the Lions had interviewed a black coach even though they knew they were going to hire Mariucci, they still might have been very impressed with that coach as the result of the interview. When another team calls Matt Millen to ask if he has any recommendations, that interviewee's name very well could come up. Then, that coach will get the chance to legitimately interview for a head coaching spot.

Additionally, people who were involved in the interview process will inevitably take positions with other teams. When those teams have new openings, they will remember the coach who really impressed them in the "courtesy" interview and possibly give him a shot at the job.

Plus, the "token" interview allows the candidate to gain experience interviewing for a head coaching position and get feedback so he can go into the next interview better prepared.

Basically, it's all about networking and contacts. Giving someone a chance to make a positive impression now (even if there is no real intention to hire the guy) can help them in the future as the good word spreads.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

The networking thing is a great point, and I think shows some of the weakness in the "cream will rise to the top" theory. The NFL hires many retreads (Norv Turner, come on down!) over and over, not necessarily because they're any better than anyone else but because they're in, people know them, feel comfortable with them, etc. So you have to do things like this to break the cycle and get more black people into the upper circles. Then they too can be tired wornout retreads, passed from team to team without merit, like many white coaches. And then we will have overcome our race problem in NFL coaching.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had the opportunity to speak with Ray Anderson, then VP of the Atlanta Falcons and now (I believe) NFL Executive VP of Football Operations. I asked him why the rule was in place that NFL teams had to interview a black coach. This was right around the time that the Lions were hiring Steve Mariucci - they knew he was the guy they wanted and didn't bother giving other interviews. Seemed to make sense. If the coach who you really want is available, why go through a bunch of token interviews?

What Mr. Anderson said made sense. It's not that a black coach will get interviewed, blow everyone away, and get hired. Of course, that might happen (Jim Mora, Jr. surprised the Falcons in his interview - I don't believe he was the front-runner at the time), but it typically won't if it's essentially a "courtesy" interview.

The importance of interviewing a black coach is for that coach's advancement down the road. When teams are looking to fill a coaching vacancy, they will talk to other executives and coaches around the league to get some input. If, say, the Lions had interviewed a black coach even though they knew they were going to hire Mariucci, they still might have been very impressed with that coach as the result of the interview. When another team calls Matt Millen to ask if he has any recommendations, that interviewee's name very well could come up. Then, that coach will get the chance to legitimately interview for a head coaching spot.

Additionally, people who were involved in the interview process will inevitably take positions with other teams. When those teams have new openings, they will remember the coach who really impressed them in the "courtesy" interview and possibly give him a shot at the job.

Plus, the "token" interview allows the candidate to gain experience interviewing for a head coaching position and get feedback so he can go into the next interview better prepared.

Basically, it's all about networking and contacts. Giving someone a chance to make a positive impression now (even if there is no real intention to hire the guy) can help them in the future as the good word spreads.

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this is a very very good post.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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The importance of interviewing a black coach is for that coach's advancement down the road. When teams are looking to fill a coaching vacancy, they will talk to other executives and coaches around the league to get some input.

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This is what I don't understand...white, black, latino, etc coaches all want interviews to help with advancement down the road, so why is it only neccessary for black coaches??? this doesn't make sense...why is there no White Coaches Association? or Mexican Coaches Association?


Edit: great post dlk9s

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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why is there no White Coaches Association

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How old are you?

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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why is there no White Coaches Association?

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I'd guess because there's no history of widespread discrimination against white people in this country such that there are almost no white people in certain high profile jobs. If inertia is part of the continuing problem, then you need to do more than "nothing" to remedy it. Norv Turner doesn't need help getting consideration.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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Norv Turner doesn't need help getting consideration.

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no, but young assistant coaches and coordinators that are chomping at the bit for their chance at a head coaching position do (ie Eric Mangini 2 years ago or Kiffman last year)

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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why is there no White Coaches Association

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How old are you?

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old enough to know this is [censored] and that it won't be long before Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are heading up search committes for head coaches

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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When another team calls Matt Millen to ask if he has any recommendations, he should instantly get fired

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FYP

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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I am not racist

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Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

It doesn't really matter unless they force black coaches to actually get hired an interview might waste a couple hours and isn't that big a deal.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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When another team calls Matt Millen to ask if he has any recommendations, he should instantly get fired

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FYP

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I was thinking the same thing when I read it.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

To continue with the cream rising to the top metaphor, I think that's more likely to happen in the NFL than college. The people making the personnel decisions in the NFL are usually the front office higher-ups/ owner/ whoever. These guys are trying to keep their jobs and make money. The best way to do this is to win football games, so the teams are more likely to hire coaches that give the team the best chance of winning, regardless of race.

For college teams, the people making the personnel decisions are very much answerable to the university's boosters (much more so than NFL front office people are to their team's fans). The people doing the hiring for a college team are more likely to be swayed by the booster's interests in maintaining a particular image for the team. I don't know any college football boosters, but I would imagine that they're generally rich old white men, who don't have the best reputation for giving a chance to the black man.

I think that this disparity between NFL and CFB is shown by the fact that there are at least 6 (off the top of my head) black NFL coaches out of 32 teams, and like 4 or 5 or something like that in CFB out of 100something teams.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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To continue with the cream rising to the top metaphor, I think that's more likely to happen in the NFL than college. The people making the personnel decisions in the NFL are usually the front office higher-ups/ owner/ whoever. These guys are trying to keep their jobs and make money. The best way to do this is to win football games, so the teams are more likely to hire coaches that give the team the best chance of winning, regardless of race.

For college teams, the people making the personnel decisions are very much answerable to the university's boosters (much more so than NFL front office people are to their team's fans). The people doing the hiring for a college team are more likely to be swayed by the booster's interests in maintaining a particular image for the team. I don't know any college football boosters, but I would imagine that they're generally rich old white men, who don't have the best reputation for giving a chance to the black man.

I think that this disparity between NFL and CFB is shown by the fact that there are at least 6 (off the top of my head) black NFL coaches out of 32 teams, and like 4 or 5 or something like that in CFB out of 100something teams.

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This is way off. Boosters do want to "maintaint a particular image" and that image is WINNING. Even in the deep south, these guys might be racists, but they're looking at this as hiring an EMPLOYEE. And they don't mind having a black guy work for them. They might be homophobes too, but if it means winning a SEC championship they'd not only HIRE a black guy but KISS him in front of a packed stadium of fans.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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[ QUOTE ]
To continue with the cream rising to the top metaphor, I think that's more likely to happen in the NFL than college. The people making the personnel decisions in the NFL are usually the front office higher-ups/ owner/ whoever. These guys are trying to keep their jobs and make money. The best way to do this is to win football games, so the teams are more likely to hire coaches that give the team the best chance of winning, regardless of race.

For college teams, the people making the personnel decisions are very much answerable to the university's boosters (much more so than NFL front office people are to their team's fans). The people doing the hiring for a college team are more likely to be swayed by the booster's interests in maintaining a particular image for the team. I don't know any college football boosters, but I would imagine that they're generally rich old white men, who don't have the best reputation for giving a chance to the black man.

I think that this disparity between NFL and CFB is shown by the fact that there are at least 6 (off the top of my head) black NFL coaches out of 32 teams, and like 4 or 5 or something like that in CFB out of 100something teams.

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This is way off. Boosters do want to "maintaint a particular image" and that image is WINNING. Even in the deep south, these guys might be racists, but they're looking at this as hiring an EMPLOYEE. And they don't mind having a black guy work for them. They might be homophobes too, but if it means winning a SEC championship they'd not only HIRE a black guy but KISS him in front of a packed stadium of fans.

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I disagree. If that's the case then you are saying it's the AD at almost each and every school that is the one stopping the process. Teams want to win and they want to win their way.

Boosters have a big influence in the hiring of coaches at many schools. After all it is their money that will be paying the salaries, and it is their money that this new coach is going to be calling them personally and asking them for.

AD's need 2 things. 1. They need wins (to keep alumni happy) and 2. they need money to be raised. A lot of people can do # 1. It's #2 that keeps ADs awake at night and keeps boosters on speed dial.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

The B,

I don't know about you, but I'm similarly pissed that there's no National Pistol Association. Who do those NRA [censored] think they are?

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

I don't know so much that the issue is AD's/GM's or rich powerful alums are racist. It's more that they aren't all incredibly slick objective and impartial in viewing potential candidates (this is especially so of the rich old alums). A lot have an image of what a coach should look like; very often this is the tough old (white) guy who shaves with broken glass and makes his teams tough as nails. The point is, the world does not consist of people in positions of power who are able to divorce their subtle biases, or the biases of people who they have to appease, from their decision-making process.

If you further believe that there is a large class of coaches between whom there isn't a huge difference in ability, then making the mistake of overlooking qualified minorities in favor of somewhat less qualified white coaches may not make a huge difference in most cases. So ignoring minorities isn't giving rise to a particularly large exploitable edge or putting numerous AD jobs at risk that otherwise would be safe.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

I think the problem in the NFL is that there really aren't a whole lot of black assistants to hire as head coaches right now.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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I think the problem in the NFL is that there really aren't a whole lot of black assistants to hire as head coaches right now.

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Which speaks to the overall problem that racist practices aren't restricted to just the highest profile jobs.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

mike singletary is gonna be one busy guy.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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I think the problem in the NFL is that there really aren't a whole lot of black assistants to hire as head coaches right now.

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Which speaks to the overall problem that racist practices aren't restricted to just the highest profile jobs.

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I guess I agree - when you look at the black guys who do make it to assistant positions, they seem to get hired (Romeo, Lovie, and Tomlin just recently). So it's getting their foot into the door and actually getting the chance to prove themselves as assistants.

Or perhaps only the best black talent gets hired to be assistants? Who knows what's going on.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

College football operates at a cuthroat level of competition. I have an extremely hard time believing that a large number of programs are passing over good black coaches for white ones instead just because of the color of their skin. If this really is happening, then there are huge advantages available to schools that are willing to stop being racist: they get better coaches than the schools that are racist. It's very simple.

Maybe there is widespead racism from the top to bottom that pushes blacks away from the very beginning of the head coach career path, I don't know. But if that is different than the BCA criticizing A&M for not having an blacks on their candidate list, and they would have to provide reasoning and evidence to support saying that. Otherwise I don't really see what can be done about schools who actively shoot themselves in the foot by passing up +EV options just because of race.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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I am not racist

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Thanks for the clarification.

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LOL, so true...

"Its like when people will begin a racist statement with 'Now I'm not racist, but....'"



link

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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why is there no White Coaches Association

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How old are you?

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old enough to know this is [censored] and that it won't be long before Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are heading up search committes for head coaches

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You know, I can't help get mad when I think about how badly white males have it in this country.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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I think the problem in the NFL is that there really aren't a whole lot of black assistants to hire as head coaches right now.

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Which speaks to the overall problem that racist practices aren't restricted to just the highest profile jobs.

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I guess I agree - when you look at the black guys who do make it to assistant positions, they seem to get hired (Romeo, Lovie, and Tomlin just recently). So it's getting their foot into the door and actually getting the chance to prove themselves as assistants.

Or perhaps only the best black talent gets hired to be assistants? Who knows what's going on.

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Maybe it's that a lot of assistants are lifers and that until 10-15 years ago there really was a color barrier. It takes time to even things out statistically. There aren't many minorities in Dick Lebeau's age bracket who are coordinators in the NFL but my guess is that if you look at under 40 assistants things are starting to resemble the distribution of people who go into coaching. Rex Ryan has plenty of competition from the Mike Tomlins of the world. The Rooney rule may be a part of that, or it may just be a natural righting of things as money has poured in and performance has become such a bug business. It's not like the demographic shift could happen over night. It takes at least a generation, even with help.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

This prob won't come across the right way but oh well.

IMO When you force people to do things in favor of minorities it only helps breed racism. People, whether they're white, black, brown, green or purple don't like being told what to do. When people stop focusing on the color of someone's skin and start focusing on their abilities then maybe there will be an end to racism.

If I was the person in charge of hiring a coach(college or NFL) I should have the right to interview whoever I wanted. I shouldn't be forced to interview someone b/c of the color of their skin but b/c of their ability to do the job.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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If I was the person in charge of hiring a coach(college or NFL) I should have the right to interview whoever I wanted.

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NFL teams do have the right to interview whoever they want. To my knowledge there is no limit to the number of interview candidates they can talk to.



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I shouldn't be forced to interview someone b/c of the color of their skin but b/c of their ability to do the job.

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It is sad that that is what is takes to rectify past injustices but the Rooney rule does seem to be having a positive impact.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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This prob won't come across the right way but oh well.

IMO When you force people to do things in favor of minorities it only helps breed racism. People, whether they're white, black, brown, green or purple don't like being told what to do. When people stop focusing on the color of someone's skin and start focusing on their abilities then maybe there will be an end to racism.

If I was the person in charge of hiring a coach(college or NFL) I should have the right to interview whoever I wanted. I shouldn't be forced to interview someone b/c of the color of their skin but b/c of their ability to do the job.

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In an ideal world I agree. The problem is I think people notice race and act upon it (subconsciously or not), and I think they have always done so and probably will. I don't think just pretending it isn't a factor will make it go away; in fact, it leads us to just pretend it isn't a problem, even though it is.

Now, as to whether a particular remedy is going to make things better, that is certainly a real concern. If you put quotas in place, you're setting up a real crappy system. At least the interviewing rule, as was mentioned earlier, doesn't force any actual hiring but does force teams to give people who have been ignored before a chance to get a foot in the door, which then gives them some connections. It's limited, the burden isn't that big, and it (seemingly) helps to overcome some of the inertia.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

There will never, ever be an end to racism. Won't happen. It will always be there to some degree.

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IMO When you force people to do things in favor of minorities it only helps breed racism.

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It's a double edged sword.

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If I was the person in charge of hiring a coach(college or NFL) I should have the right to interview whoever I wanted. I shouldn't be forced to interview someone b/c of the color of their skin but b/c of their ability to do the job.

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I agree. Which goes for any job.

However, there are still people who have power to give jobs that race is still an issue. Sports is no exception.

b

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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If I was the person in charge of hiring a coach(college or NFL) I should have the right to interview whoever I wanted.

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NFL teams do have the right to interview whoever they want. To my knowledge there is no limit to the number of interview candidates they can talk to.


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The point I was trying to make is if I had a specific person or 2 in mind for the job I should be able to interview them and only them. I shouldn't be forced into interviewing someone b/c of the color of their skin.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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I am not racist

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Thanks for the clarification.

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LOL, so true...

"Its like when people will begin a racist statement with 'Now I'm not racist, but....'"



link

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qft imo here's another post on this very topic (warning: may contain bbv4l content)

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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the Rooney rule does seem to be having a positive impact.

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Let's not conflate causation with correlation. I'd love to see some evidence for the latter, but I don't think it's there.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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If I was the person in charge of hiring a coach(college or NFL) I should have the right to interview whoever I wanted. I shouldn't be forced to interview someone b/c of the color of their skin but b/c of their ability to do the job.

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A+

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I am not racist

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Thanks for the clarification.

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LOL, so true...

"Its like when people will begin a racist statement with 'Now I'm not racist, but....'"



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it's sad (and a sign of the times) that you have to preface debates/issues with an "I am not racist" statement...If i didn't say that this thread would be full of flaming w/ comments about The_B being racist and hating black people

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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Maybe it's that a lot of assistants are lifers and that until 10-15 years ago there really was a color barrier. It takes time to even things out statistically.

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This is EXACTLY what they were saying 15-20 years ago.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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it's sad (and a sign of the times) that you have to preface debates/issues with an "I am not racist" statement...If i didn't say that this thread would be full of flaming w/ comments about The_B being racist and hating black people


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Once you preface a statement with "I'm not a racist but", it's so painfully obvious to everyone that flaming becomes a waste of time.

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

What kind of questions do they ask in these interviews? Is there stupid [censored] like "what is your favorite color"?

Re: Football Coaches: The Hiring Process
 

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"what is your favorite color"?

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better not say white