Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

The guy is a complete unknown. I would never lead this flop with a mid pair really so I didn't do it with a boat (good or bad?). I was going to c/r the flop, but he checked behind. The turn should have improved a lot of his hands and a K ins unlikely to help anything I called a pfr with out of the blinds. I check again to induce a delay cbet (better to lead here?). He obliges and now I go for a pretty big c/r (took maybe 15 sec to figure out what size I wanted to make it, is this a good size?) figuring that he has at least a K or I'm not getting anything out of him anyways. Here it gets interesting. He thinks for maybe 20 sec and then puts out this really weird 3bet. Now, we're deep enough that I'm not sure if its best to call or raise this when there are still a decent amount of cards that can potentially counterfeit me if he has a K or 9 or AA (which I assume is still possible). Whats my play here? If I just call do I donk blank rivers or c/r? I assume that I'd c/f river 9 and K. If I 4bet then how much? I would be shoving like all rivers that don't counterfeit me if its not a 4bet shove.

Thoughts on flop check welcome, but take into account that I'm never really leading mid pairs here vs. an unknown. Also thoughts on c/r the turn vs. b3b please.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($438.05)
MP3 ($156.75)
CO ($211)
Button ($195.95)
SB ($103.15)
Hero ($259)
UTG ($197)
UTG+1 ($212.75)
MP1 ($261.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($17) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: ($17) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $36</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $70</font>, Hero

Re: Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

raise! if he has KK that sucks.

Re: Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

stick it in sucks if he has K9/KK/98 but he can still have like 9X or maybe even AK/AA if he sucks

Re: Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

[ QUOTE ]
stick it in sucks if he has K9/KK/98 but he can still have like 9X or maybe even AK/AA if he sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

Does shoving look stronger or weaker than a smaller 4bet? A shove will be like $180 more so its almost a buyin on top which seems like a big shove although its only about pot. If its a cooler then oh well. I'm trying to get value from 9x (either way probably works), AK, and AA.

Re: Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

Would someone really do this against the big blind with just a K? Wow. I guess he could think that you are trying to steal, but to re-raise, even (especially) a min-raise? I can maybe see this with A9, but AK or AA is really bad.

I think a shove often looks weaker.

Re: Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

Shoving as well as 4betting have to look really strong to villain. I think we agree that we basically want our money in the pot and the question is which way is best to get to that point and I'd prefer calling here and then donk the river pot size, but that's just my opinion...

BTW: If this hand would've been against me he'd turn around 9999...

Re: Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

I like the turn C/R.

Here's a line no one suggested yet:

Just call his turn 3-bet, and check/shove the river (except when it's a K or 9).

You look ridiculously strong if you 4-bet the turn IMO.

Re: Flop a Boat, Preflop Raiser checks behind, Turn Line (NL200)
 

Bet the flop. Bet the turn. Absent of betting the turn, CR less then $36, as this bet over his $8 lead is going to scare away a lot of K's. As played, looks like you should call the $70, then lead a non 9/K river.