[PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

Sorry for the raw HH.

Game #6301947164: Omaha H/L PL ($0.15/$0.25) - 2007/11/15 - 18:24:11 (EST)
Table "Jennyblank" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: Mrnobluff ($10.37 in chips)
Seat 2: Niggel ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 3: aborealis ($44.10 in chips)
Seat 4: philivey ($3.19 in chips)
Seat 5: puppy99 ($6.96 in chips)
Seat 6: revo83 sits out
Seat 7: LeeChang1 ($19.72 in chips)
Seat 8: pilelipe ($11.78 in chips)
Seat 9: Raisebet ($7 in chips)
Seat 10: Tho100920 ($32.51 in chips)
LeeChang1: posts small blind $0.15
pilelipe: posts big blind $0.25
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Niggel [2s 7h 3c Ac]
Raisebet: calls $0.25
Tho100920: calls $0.25
Mrnobluff: folds
Niggel: calls $0.25
aborealis: folds
philivey: folds
puppy99: folds
LeeChang1: calls $0.10
pilelipe: checks
----- FLOP ----- [Ah As Jh]
LeeChang1: checks
pilelipe: checks
Raisebet: bets $0.50
Tho100920: calls $0.50
Niggel: calls $0.50
LeeChang1: folds
pilelipe: folds
----- TURN ----- [Ah As Jh][8c]
Raisebet: bets $2.75
Tho100920: calls $2.75
Niggel: calls $2.75
----- RIVER ----- [Ah As Jh 8c][Ts]
Geor23072 joins the table at seat #6
Raisebet: checks
Tho100920: bets $11
Niggel: folds
Raisebet: is all-in $3.50

Is calling the flop okay?
Is calling the turn okay?

Thoughts on all streets apprecciated [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

I am tempted to check-raise because of the small bet of villain 1. But calling is clearly the better play because you are playing against two opponents and there is a decent chance someone has a better high hand (trips with better kicker or even a full house) than you which he will not lay down to a check-raise.

BTW, facing a full pot bet a on the flop from a decent player I would strongly consider a fold.

Calling the turn is fine because you picked up the nut low draw.

Folding the river is fine.

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

dont call this flop... aces are just to common a card in poker and especially in PLO8...you are almost never good on that flop and have terrible reverse implied odds to continue,,,, if you hit yourfull, you'll almost never get payed by a better one but will be forced to pay off most of the time, esepecially that you'll pick up a low draw with one...on the turn i guess u have to call, river fold is standered

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

dealt to Niggel [2s 7h 3c Ac]
Raisebet: calls $0.25
Tho100920: calls $0.25
Mrnobluff: folds
Niggel: calls $0.25

O RLY?

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

[ QUOTE ]
dealt to Niggel [2s 7h 3c Ac]
Raisebet: calls $0.25
Tho100920: calls $0.25
Mrnobluff: folds
Niggel: calls $0.25

O RLY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't exactly know what you want to tell me! Is this a raising hand or would you seriously consider folding this?

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

Sorry for the flippant reply.
I think you could raise this because of the following:

Position - possibly buy the button
Position - you are in mid position after limpers
Hand - A23 is a powerhouse combo
Hand - Suited ace
Hand - 7 kicker provides extra 3/4 possibilities on a 456 board
Overall - Your hand plays well against many people in a multiway large pot. The limpers ahead of you ensure the multiway, now make it large as well!

Disclaimer: Specific table dynamics could make this hand a call. Hand values may go down as well as up.

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

Fold the flop, fold the turn, fold the river. I think you only have a call on the turn if you are sure both players will call on the river when you make your low.

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

I think the people saying to fold the flop are being results orientated. We are getting a good price + we have trips + we have the backdoor nut low draw.

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

I would have semi-bluff raised the max on the turn.

Re: [PL$25] Flopping Trips - Turning Nut-Lowdraw
 

Hi Niggel - Your starting hand is fine. But with this particular flop you don't have a good kicker for your trips and you only have a back-door low. And in addition to being out-kicked if you don't improve to a full house, you have to worry about the heart draw.

So it's a very iffy hand after the flop, despite having flopped trip aces.

On the one hand, your flopped trip aces need all the protection they can get, meaning you want to bet - and on the other hand, you're very much on a draw yourself, meaning you want to keep it cheap.

If you do make a full house, it's probably good, but vulnerable. (You definitely want to make quads or a full house here!)

But all that makes the hand/flop very difficult to play.

Five of you saw the flop so that your opponents have 16 cards between them. On that basis, it's 16/45 that one of them has the missing ace. But nine opponents were originally dealt cards. On that basis, assuming anyone who was dealt an ace would see the flop, it's 36/45 that one of your opponents has the missing ace. Thus it's somewhere between 16/45 and 36/45 that an opponent has the missing ace, probably closer to the latter number than the former. Before any action on the second betting round, I'd guesstimate it's maybe about 75% or 3 to 1 that an opponent has the missing ace.

Raisebet bets 2/5 of the pot and Tho100920 calls.

Now it really looks like one of these guys has the missing ace. And if that is the case, since your kicker stinks, you really need to make a full house. In other words, you really want the turn to be a deuce, trey, or preferably a seven. (Ideally you want the turn to be an ace, but that's unrealistic at this point).

At any rate, you call. Fine. You're going to get to see the turn cheaply. Fine.

But then the turn is an eight. Ugh. And at this point Raisebet bets the pot. Double ugh. And then Tho100920 calls. Triple ugh.

Ugh, ugh, ugh.

Now you're drawing for low with 15/44 good cards for low, and you're still drawing for high, with another 9/44 mediocre cards for high. We might refine that a bit. I didn't count the ace because I think one of your opponents has it.

Still, roughly half the time maybe you'll get half the pot. So with implied pot odds it's very close. Tempting to call.

Then the river is bad for you (quadruple ugh) and you fold to a huge bet. Seems right to me.

[ QUOTE ]
Is calling the flop okay?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. But then you have to get lucky on the turn and river. (And that doesn't happen).
[ QUOTE ]
Is calling the turn okay?

[/ QUOTE ]Seems very close to me. I think I'd fold to the action. I'd be more worried about Tho100920, but I'd be worried about Raisebet too. Seems like a potential situation developing where you might be more damned if you make your full house or nut low than if you miss.

Keep in mind that my primary game if fixed-limit Omaha-8.

Buzz