that puke taste in my mouth
 

heres what its from.....



havent posted a hand in a while, but this one made me almost time out.

i am playing very lag and aggro in a 3-7 handed game, and villian is being fairly aggro, but since it broke down to hu he hasnt been as much.

only sign of overaggression was when he opens button, 2.4k eff stacks, i 3bet 99, he shoves the rest. i fold he flashes AA.


other than that, hu has been pretty uneventful so far. we are on 2 tables, but its not exactly jman and booosted. mostly smallish and medium pots.

he cont bets probably about 75% of the time after pfr.

he opens, eff stack is 4100, i call with J7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]


flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

i check, he checks behind.

turn: 8 (i cant remember if it was a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or not, but doesnt matter a ton here i dont think)

i bet the pot $140, he calls fairly quickly.


river: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

i check, he bets $290 into about $420.

I make it $1155, he thinks about 4-5 seconds and shove 2.7k more.

ez fold? ez call? flip a coin?

thanks.


edited to add: im fairly sure he has never seen me check raise bluff the river before (i havent played with him much), so i give maybe less than 5% that its ever a pure rebluff.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

sick

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

Uhm you have the second nuts heads-up. This is an instant call. 76 is just as likely as QJ. That alone should give you reason to call.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

I don't see how you can fold this.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uhm you have the second nuts heads-up. This is an instant call.


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont see how you can fold this


[/ QUOTE ]

ok, glad we got these out of the way.

lets move on.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

I think a good player calls 76 more than they call QJ on the turn right?

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

you dont think he could be valueshoving 99 or 67 or something?

edit: also, do you think he'd bet QJdd on flop or atleast raise turn w/ it?

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a good player calls 76 more than they call QJ on the turn right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say there about equal because QJ is sporting overs whereas 76 is not. QJ also has more showdown equity being queen-high as opposed to 7-high.

89 is also a possiblity.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

i would never ever ever ever fold this, and if you won villain was definitely thinking his shove was for value with 76, but this heads up, for me at least, is unfoldable

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

find hh i think if 8 was a spade it could matter, but best just to make sure even if it doesnt matter

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

i think that a reply to this thread requires at least some consideration as to my hand range in his mind.

what hands lead the turn, check raise to that size, will call an all in, etc?

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

krantz-

dont have the HH, but im leaning more towards it not being a spade from the mental picture of the board in my head.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

i think you could fold. don't think the guy you described would shove 67 here. it seems to either be JQ or a pure rebluff, which you rule out basically.

as an aside, this is why i like playing like a complete maniac. i never have to fold anything.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

although i guess he could put you on a set value c/ring river, so he def could shove 67... but i think this particular player you described would rather play it safe than risk his whole stack against what could definitely be JQ or J7

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

i wouldnt mind a fold at all here. its very slim/close but i cant see 76 doing this very often.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

Geez. The fact that people are considering folding this in a HU match is mindboggling to a minbet donk like myself. This is why my several NL jaunts have always ended in bad things.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

this is a very sick spot. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

id call though and chalk it up to cold decking...

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

the only thing that really bothers me about this hand is the turn action, I think it does matter a little if the second flush draw turned because I can see QsJs playing the turn this way as well, whereas it is harder to buy him check calling the turn w/QJo. imo this skews his hand range more to the QJ side.

I say fold, only because I think I've always seen the nuts with this river action.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

turnip-

he was in position. QJ is never ever ever folding there.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uhm you have the second nuts heads-up. This is an instant call. 76 is just as likely as QJ. That alone should give you reason to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh it's not "as likely" alot of people would just call with 76 there after being check raised.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

I always want to fold here, and know folding is easily correct, but I call anyways. I should make a pysch post about it or something.

This is a close fold though.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

There's no doubt this isn't 67 or something silly like that, it's pretty clear it's nuts or bluff, and people bluffing in this spot is probably yet to be seen.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

call

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

Apathy,

When does your posting vacation start exactly? Lollers.

FSU,

Is it $2.7K or $1.5K for you to call? Im guessing its the former, since $1.5K seems like an insanely easy call.

If he is bluffing, he is risking $3700 to win $2300. It doesnt seem like he is bluffing here. Id look to fold this one.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

I think you need to know villian really well to fold this. Maybe some pros that know your play will just call with 76 here knowing that you probably have a straight when you C/R. However, I see a lot of players at 10/20 that will push this with any set HU. You're still getting around 2:1 on a call, so the important thing's to not make the big mistake by folding the winner here.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

right, but if the flush draw didn't turn I think he calls with QJ less often (since when the flush draw turns QsJs never folds). so what I was saying was if the spade did turn, that's one more combo of QsJs that's never folding.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

If he cont. bets 75% of the times on the flop after pfr, don't you think he would bet on this flop with QJ?

I say call.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

Great analysis FishesGetEaten!

My hate for the <10-posts just increased some more.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
Great analysis FishesGetEaten!

My hate for the <10-posts just increased some more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to post the same thing, MDMA.

If you cont bet a lot then you're generally cont betting made hands, draws, and no-hopers. Queen high is pretty close to being a no-hoper.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

Eh, how is that pertinent? I'm not saying QJ isn't one of the hands that he'd be most likely to fire on the flop (it is), but to call because of that is simply ridiculous.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
so i give maybe less than 5% that its ever a pure rebluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I doubt the player you describe is pushing 67 or 99.

fold

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

I think you losing to QJ or he may have pushed with the same hand J7 either way it's a marginal call. I feel it's unlikely that he's reraising all in with trips or 67.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, how is that pertinent? I'm not saying QJ isn't one of the hands that he'd be most likely to fire on the flop (it is), but to call because of that is simply ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pertinent because it's another factor to consider or think about.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

God damn does everybody misunderstand what I write? I meant it wasn't pertinent in critizising me when I told the 6-post drooler that his analysis was "Great", I didn't mean it wasn't pertinent to the situation.

The whole point was that it seemed like the 6-poster based his call solely/mostly on the fact that "he would have bet QJ if he CB:s 75% of the time", and I'm just so frustrated by all this retards who post retarded stuff like this, hence my comment.

What the [censored] is up with everybody?

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
God damn does everybody misunderstand what I write? I meant it wasn't pertinent in critizising me when I told the 6-post drooler that his analysis was "Great", I didn't mean it wasn't pertinent to the situation.

The whole point was that it seemed like the 6-poster based his call solely/mostly on the fact that "he would have bet QJ if he CB:s 75% of the time", and I'm just so frustrated by all this retards who post retarded stuff like this, hence my comment.

What the [censored] is up with everybody?

[/ QUOTE ]

why does your post have to reek of condescension?

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

I think some of you seem to be looking too much at the board as a whole and not going enough street by street.

When it gets to the river, hero having a straight is incredibly disguised. And I think the river CR is far more indicative of a hand that was already there on the turn (and possibly the flop) than a hand that just got there on the river, or maybe a 2 pair hand that was already there but further improved on the river.

Thus I think villian is probably reading us for a small set or T9/T8/98 and will definately shove hands like 99 and 67.

Call.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

fwiw

yesterday i played a similar pot.. 6 ppl on the table 10/20 eff stack about 2k. i open utg for 70 w/ KQo and villain calls in BB. Flop was Ah Jh 3s. check check. turn was 7d, check check. river is Tc...he leads for pot and I raise it to say $400. he pops it to $900. at this point im about 100% percent sure that he has KQ b/c he had been very passive throughout the session for the split...i push and he calls w/ TTT. villain is

my point is that if you dont have a good read on your opp...you simply cant fold.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

All you people saying that 67 is as likely as QJ are not thinking the whole hand through properly. Hand reading starts preflop, not on the turn. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but he is betting 67 on the flop a hell of a lot more than QJ.

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
God damn does everybody misunderstand what I write? I meant it wasn't pertinent in critizising me when I told the 6-post drooler that his analysis was "Great", I didn't mean it wasn't pertinent to the situation.

The whole point was that it seemed like the 6-poster based his call solely/mostly on the fact that "he would have bet QJ if he CB:s 75% of the time", and I'm just so frustrated by all this retards who post retarded stuff like this, hence my comment.

What the [censored] is up with everybody?

[/ QUOTE ]

why does your post have to reek of condescension?

[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously because he's so much better than everyone

Re: that puke taste in my mouth
 

[ QUOTE ]
yesterday i played a similar pot...rambles about a pot that isn't close to similar.

[/ QUOTE ]