Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

MP is a long time regular in this game and supposed to be pretty good. He`s on the loose side preflop but nothing crazy. I decide to call to let SB in who is a huge calling station type fish. He won a big pot vs me earlier when he rivered a str8 after he peeled the flop and turn with a gutshot. He is 60/5/1 with 32% wts.
What does the TAGs c/r mean? He probably vies me as reasonably aggressive but I dont think he thinks I am gonna stab here super light given SBs tendencies. What are we doing now and what`s my plan for the rest of the hand?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

SB ($2101.96)
BB ($3516.50)
UTG ($1960)
MP ($1917)
CO ($7748)
Hero ($2477)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $70</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $70, SB calls $60, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($230) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $170</font>, SB calls $170, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $485</font>,

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

Weird spot, but with the protected pot with the fish I think it's a fold, he is unlikely to do this with a draw or any worse made hands.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

I think this is a fold. He's probably not c/r-ing 2 players with a worse hand, but I could be wrong....

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

I could imagine that he checkraises the flop because he doesn´t give you a big hand and want to see a freecard. The only big hands are AJ/66 and i think you make a bigger bet on the Flop with this hands.
AJ/A6 is also unlikely because not good good enough and need protection.
But i don´t think that this is often the case so i make a tough laydown.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

I think this is a relatively easy fold. Given your description of SB, chasing with any piece, MP just isn't check-raising worse here.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Weird spot, but with the protected pot with the fish I think it's a fold, he is unlikely to do this with a draw or any worse made hands.

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I do think the exact opposite is the case but I could be wrong. I just don`t see him ever check a strong made hand given there are so many draws I would check behind with the calling station in.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

If the MP is smart, he's doing this to harvest the overlay that may present itself when the cold calls. The problem now becomes, you either have to push or fold. Pushing obviously is exposing yourself to the sb's range as well. The best you can hope for is a weirdly played AQ, which I've never seen anyone play in this way, and why would they?

Fold.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Weird spot, but with the protected pot with the fish I think it's a fold, he is unlikely to do this with a draw or any worse made hands.

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I do think the exact opposite is the case but I could be wrong. I just don`t see him ever check a strong made hand given there are so many draws I would check behind with the calling station in.

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bingo.

I would raise.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Weird spot, but with the protected pot with the fish I think it's a fold, he is unlikely to do this with a draw or any worse made hands.

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I do think the exact opposite is the case but I could be wrong. I just don`t see him ever check a strong made hand given there are so many draws I would check behind with the calling station in.

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bingo.

I would raise.

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yeah i think QKss JsXs is way more in his range than a made hand.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

my read is that there is a very good chance AK is good here. I think his most likely holdings are a pair of jacks and a flush draw or a gutshot and flush draw. If he flopped 2 pair or a set why would he check the flop in a 3 way pot on a semi-dangerous board with only a solid player left to act and a calling station yet to be given the opportunity to call?

I would think a good player would disguise the strength of their hand with a continuation style bet in this spot and try to build the pot instead of check raising their opponents off their medium/weak aces. I think its much more likely he's trying to take it down with a hand that needs improvement like JQ or KQ spades.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

I think he has a big draw or air here a large % of the time.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

do not fold.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Weird spot, but with the protected pot with the fish I think it's a fold, he is unlikely to do this with a draw or any worse made hands.

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I do think the exact opposite is the case but I could be wrong. I just don`t see him ever check a strong made hand given there are so many draws I would check behind with the calling station in.

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Yah definitely agree. Why would he ever check a big hand as the initial raiser with the SB calling station in the hand? He can't assume you are strong after flatting in position, and he knows you won't bet without a real hand because you both know the SB is calling. This looks very fishy I would probably raise AI or call and get it in on a blank turn.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Weird spot, but with the protected pot with the fish I think it's a fold, he is unlikely to do this with a draw or any worse made hands.

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I do think the exact opposite is the case but I could be wrong. I just don`t see him ever check a strong made hand given there are so many draws I would check behind with the calling station in.

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That's the second time I've missed that MP was the PFR.

One thing that makes this position weird is that you have a hand that isn't even in your range (eh?). I always get owned when people make this call preflop.

I can't see why he would check a big (meaning better than yours) hand on the flop with the station in. It makes no sense to me at all. Also, when the board has two broadway and a flush draw on it, a flopped monster can lose a lot of value when the flop gets checked through.

I feel like your flop betting range is a little wider than you're letting on, as even most stations fold unders on a A high board?

What I don't get is if you do have the best hand, WTF does he have? I would have thought he'd lead the draw, but if you're considering folding this hand then perhaps the freecard/CR with the draw is the best play. Certainly it's the best way to fold the station if you want to attempt to fold a station.

I'm calling. Mostly because I don't believe he wouldn't just take the bet bet bet approach against the station with a made hand and our hand is very underrepped.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

his line seems like complete bs. I would at least call and see a turn.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

The thing is, you have an ace (let alone AK) here like never. And he knows it.

If he is c/r'ing for value ever, it is with a weaker Ace.
Also, this guy is almost always c-betting a draw, especially a huge draw.

Now I think his range is worse Ace, and total air/bare gutshots.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

Shove &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt; Call imho.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Shove &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt; Call imho.

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You really need to say why you think this is so. In particular why you think Fold &gt;&gt;&gt; Call rather than fold being at the end.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Shove &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt; Call imho.

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You really need to say why you think this is so. In particular why you think Fold &gt;&gt;&gt; Call rather than fold being at the end.

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I actually called and I don`t really see why it`s clearly worse than raising as well. I am convinced it is better than folding.
Raising makes the hand a lot easier to play of course but I think there are strong reasons that favour calling. If the turn spades and I get bet into I guess I have an easy fold. Allowing the fish to put his money in bad is another reason.

Re: Tricky flop spot with AK vs 2 opponents 10/20
 

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Shove &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt; Call imho.

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So you are putting our opponent on air, but want to raise for value?

Since he will shove into you on the turn with 95% of his range (which is mostly air),
it seems like you're setting 1/2 of a buyin on fire by pushing him out on the flop.