Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
Villian in hand is Jovial Gent. My image is relatively tight, as is his. He tanked about 10 seconds then checked the turn.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums) MP1 (t3140) MP2 (t2505) Hero (t3050) CO (t3425) Button (t3775) SB (t4850) BB (t2075) UTG (t6135) UTG+1 (t2940) Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t225</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t225, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds. Flop: (t575) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t350</font>, Button calls t350. Turn: (t1275) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, Button checks. River: (t1275) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1000</font> |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
I don't find JG to be a nit in general, and I would rather bet the turn than bet check bet, you get more credit that way imo. Here you certainly fold out better hands a decent % of the time, but I feel like people always look me up in this spot so I've kinda stopped doin it u kno
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
i don't know if i would bluff, but i think if its better than checking, then a turn bet has to be even better.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
I think you'll get a call out of people inclined to call, a fold out of people inclined to fold. Your line could be anything -- overpair, boat, 2 overcards. You slowed down when you got called on a paired board, then sped up when the third 5 came, making a 5 in Villain's hand much less likely.
Go Tribe. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
meh after he tanks turn i think theres a good chance you get looked up. But Hes a v good and can fold 99 here, unlike most randoms. so basically im on the fence.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
i bet 375-400 on flop, but other than that it's good assuming his flatting/3betting freq with TT pf is what i figure
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
??? this is the worst river possible to bluff. what better hand is going to fold besides 44 and maybe 77?
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x [/ QUOTE ] agree for the most part, except i think we're a bit too deep. if we had 2500 pf i'd shove riv |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x [/ QUOTE ] 1600 works, no? |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
I just don't see him folding a lot of pairs here. Do not like.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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[ QUOTE ] overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x [/ QUOTE ] 1600 works, no? [/ QUOTE ] gotta put a man in decision for all his chips |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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[ QUOTE ] overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x [/ QUOTE ] 1600 works, no? [/ QUOTE ] No. I don't advise it, but I think shoving is the only way you'll get him to fold a better hand. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
I don't consider myself qualified enough to offer advice here, so I just have a question.
Is this a situation that the zeebo theorem applies to? |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
This is all about levels. Against a very sophisticated player who thinks you're a nit this a sweet move because you can't possibly be bluffing once you gave up on the turn. Unfortunately for you I can count on my fingers the number of players I'd be willing to try this against, and basically none of them are donkament players. A tournament player is unlikely to think any higher than well he didn't bet the turn so he can't have a big pair therefore my 99 is good. Overbet is better but I still don't really like it.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
I think an overbet is getting called by a wider range of hands than the bet OP made. Combined with a turn check/check, an overbet looks like a bluff. Why would you overbet for value into someone who has shown no strength?
Yeah, I know you can think about the levels forever, but in general overbets get less respect than bets that look like value bets, and in this specific situation I would not expect an overbet value bet into someone who checked behind on the turn. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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I think an overbet is getting called by a wider range of hands than the bet OP made. Combined with a turn check/check, an overbet looks like a bluff. Why would you overbet for value into someone who has shown no strength? Yeah, I know you can think about the levels forever, but in general overbets get less respect than bets that look like value bets, and in this specific situation I would not expect an overbet value bet into someone who checked behind on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I don't personally think this is true at all. And I think that on the most basic level, calling with 99 becomes a lot easier when you realise that you only need to be good approx 30% of the time to profit on the call. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
i think in no way is jovial gent a nit and that this doesn't work enough against him
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
This never works.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
check and build your image rather than risk
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
i think u get looked up pretty light here too i dont think he folds much of his range.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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check and build your image rather than risk [/ QUOTE ] lol |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
im with the majority here, i think this is a pretty bad spew, i see him having 77-jj a huge majority of the time here and i dont see him folding those hands nearly often enough to make this profitable. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
Oh well, he folded. He told me on AIM later he was too embarrassed to tell me what he really had, so in my head I still like the bet.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
Get in touch with the Zeebo theorem.
This bluff is spew. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
Well I suck, but if I have anything better than 55544 on the river I'm looking you. All leveling considerations aside, your bet/check/near pot line on that board represents a bluff often enough for me to look you up.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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Well I suck, but if I have anything better than 55544 on the river I'm looking you. All leveling considerations aside, your bet/check/near pot line on that board represents a bluff often enough for me to look you up. [/ QUOTE ] Meh, my turn check includes a failed c/rai range that should also be very possible given my preflop utg limp isolation raise. Obviously I wouldn't try this against any cash game player/2+2er. I just think I have a big enough hand here in the long run to make the bluff profitable. I make a lot of 5/6 pot valuebets on the river early/deepstacked. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
jovial gent is a cash game player now fyi.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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Oh well, he folded. He told me on AIM later he was too embarrassed to tell me what he really had, so in my head I still like the bet. [/ QUOTE ] too embarrassed because he folded a better hand, or too embarrassed because he called your preflop and flop bet with nothing? On the river: you are rarely folding out a better hand. you are rarely getting a worse hand to call. you are probably ahead. a check/call seems in order. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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I make a lot of 5/6 pot valuebets on the river early/deepstacked. [/ QUOTE ] but a bluff should represent something. what hand(s) are you trying to represent here? |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
blanked stackadonk
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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[ QUOTE ] I make a lot of 5/6 pot valuebets on the river early/deepstacked. [/ QUOTE ] but a bluff should represent something. what hand(s) are you trying to represent here? [/ QUOTE ] lol? ummm this is a totally standard line with JJ+ randal is actually good at poker. you think he's going to start bluffing known winning players the same way a 3r player would? |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
Well yes, he is. His reasnoning is just a lot more sophisticated.
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Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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Well yes, he is. His reasnoning is just a lot more sophisticated. [/ QUOTE ] If you're implying that I also put my pants on in the morning the same way a dirty 3r player does, I may have to challenge you to fisticuffs. |
Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
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??? this is the worst river possible to bluff. what better hand is going to fold besides 44 and maybe 77? [/ QUOTE ] |
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