vB Infractions - Update
 

This is something you guys might want to start thinking about sooner than later. The infraction system is nice.

http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/m...er_infractions

Re: vB Infractions
 

Very nice. Thanks, Ryan.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: vB Infractions
 

i like it. i think having a standardized system would help alleviate some of the OOT / non-OOT dichotomy in mod actions. (not that i feel uncomfortable with how we are moderating or anything, but i have heard several times that other mods and users perceive a disconnect here).

Re: vB Infractions
 

Wow, thats pretty cool, and it looks like there are some useful penalties (I particularly like the ability to impose a ban on starting new threads for infractions, this would work well for OOT I think).

Re: vB Infractions
 

Can the user see how close they are to the edge? One nice thing about *s is that they have a very visible count-down to banning.

Re: vB Infractions
 

Please don't rush the upgrade, I'm still trying to figure out all the useful things I can do with this.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

We had been getting nasty database errors involving the infraction system. That's been resolved.

This could be a big change to moderation on 2+2, and how much we use and refine it is probably going to be an ongoing discussion well after the change. I'd personally like to see most bans handled through the infraction system.

Below is what I want to start with and discuss. This doesn't get into removing the ability to start threads and such because I wanted to keep it simple at the beginning.


Infractions:

Minor
5 points - expires 3 months - warning option

Standard
10 points - expires 6 months - warning option

Major
20 points - expires 12 months

Quick Ban
45 points


Automatic bans:

15 points = 3 days
30 points = 7 days
45 points = permanent


Quick ban is just a way to give an easy option for that on the infraction page, and the warning option means you can give an infraction without the actual points.

These preset infractions are only a base. When one is given you can list a reason, leave notes, etc. Mods will also be able to give a custom number of points unless we disable that option.

Thoughts? Am I being stupid and/or missing something obvious?

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

i dunno if standardizing this across a lot of forums will work that well, but i'm up for giving things a shot. i think 6 months might be a long time for a minor infraction if it is indeed minor. right now i'm just trying to think of what types of OOT violations these would add up to.

i have to say i am pretty happy with the way OOT is going right now in terms of how we are handling things, so my hope is that there will be a lot of continuity on the new system

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

Looks great. One point: This sounds like, no matter how good you post in the FullRing NoLimit Pineapple forum, if you googletard enough times in OOT, you'll get banned from all of 2+2. I don't think this is so awful, but we've definitely given good strat posters OOT exiles instead of bans. Is this going to automate that away?

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

I would switch minor infractions to 3 points.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

also, to add, i think being able to suspend or revoke a user's right to start threads in OOT would be a really, really useful option, since probably 95% of OOT bans are for crappy OPs

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks great. One point: This sounds like, no matter how good you post in the FullRing NoLimit Pineapple forum, if you googletard enough times in OOT, you'll get banned from all of 2+2. I don't think this is so awful, but we've definitely given good strat posters OOT exiles instead of bans. Is this going to automate that away?

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely do not want to turn OOT into a strat-misfit holocaust so i am open to whatever will prevent something like this.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

I'd make the auto bans shorter: maybe 1-2 days, 3-4, 7-10, permanent. We can always hand out longer bans if we want.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would switch minor infractions to 3 points.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or we could lower the expiry time to 3mo for minors.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

I want to again stress that this is just a standardized base, although it is important to me that the site have at least a little more consistency with bans. Also, the entire idea of the infraction system is making things more standardized. It's almost useless if that's a big problem.

To get into a somewhat different matter, I don't really understand why we need to be banning people 3 days for 'googletarding'. It makes no sense to me. The idea behind OOT exiles is that poor content in OOT doesn't necessarily warrant a ban from the site, just the person not posting in OOT. The removal of the * system shouldn't have changed that. My thinking with OOT specifically is that we'll have an OOT point infraction. Just one point. The max level for an exile can be up to you guys, but I was thinking 3-5.

While the exile can't be automated within this system, it should be easier to keep track of it all. And this also provides just a little more incentive for members to be cool in there, as it could have a (minor) effect on their overall infraction level.

The 6 month expiration on points for a minor infraction is something I mulled over, but in the grand scheme of things I think that works out ok. I don't want the 5 point one to carry no weight at all.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would switch minor infractions to 3 points.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or we could lower the expiry time to 3mo for minors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting all the points working together is why I've kept things this simple to begin with. If you could elaborate on why 3 points would work better, it will certainly be considered.

The question of making the first ban shorter can also be debated. But again, if we're going to start exiling from all sorts of forums on an individual basis, site bans should definitely hold more weight. I should also point out again that you guys will be able to give a custom number of points unless we disable that feature.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would switch minor infractions to 3 points.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or we could lower the expiry time to 3mo for minors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting all the points are working together is why I've kept things this simple to begin with. If you could elaborate on why 3 points would work better, it will certainly be considered.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its best if the mods give our minor infractions frequently so the user base learns how to interact better. With 5 point infractions thats only 3x until a ban - much to harsh if we are giving out frequent infractions, with 3 point infractions its 5x - much better for small concerns.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

ryan,

when we talked about getting rid of the * system, we all talked about going back to quietly temp-banning bad posters, astroglide recommended it as well, and you didn't have any objection. mat has been very supportive of the new direction of OOT. you have been pretty absent from the discussion, so i hate to say it but my reaction is kinda 'wtf.'

nobody is getting banned 3 days for a first offense.

i think it is working great. people actually take the time to find out what they did and why it was wrong, whereas before they would just argue when you sent them a PM and bitch about it in BBV. complaints have actually gone way DOWN since we started temp banning instead of *ing, and the number of repeat offenders has PLUMMETED.

anyway, this is why i think it would be a good idea to be able to revoke thread-starting privileges in OOT.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

Mods already give out 3 day+ bans in many cases without ever warning. So getting three 5 point infractions before the first ban definitely seems way more conservative. Also don't forget about the warning option on the first two infractions that doesn't add points at all.

Using a smaller number of points seemed like the right way to go when I was first thinking about it. But the more I considered all the different ways this system would be used, the more it seemed clear that warnings and a 3 strike small infraction before the first ban would fit well.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyway, this is why i think it would be a good idea to be able to revoke thread-starting privileges in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no reason this can't be part of it.

[ QUOTE ]
when we talked about getting rid of the * system, we all talked about going back to quietly temp-banning bad posters, astroglide recommended it as well, and you didn't have any objection. mat has been very supportive of the new direction of OOT. you have been pretty absent from the discussion, so i hate to say it but my reaction is kinda 'wtf.'

[/ QUOTE ]


At the time I didn't realize you would be handing out 2-3 day bans to 5-8 posters a day for xtarding.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

[ QUOTE ]


At the time I didn't realize you would be handing out 2-3 day bans to 5-8 posters a day for xtarding.

[/ QUOTE ]

did you not realize that i was locking or deleting at least twice that number of threads before the switch?

anyway this is a tangential point since it sounds like we will have the option of suspending OP-rights, which would solve a lot of problems and lessen the need for banning.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

Well I've explained why I did this or that. Based on what I'm hearing early, the most questionable part is the minor infraction. You guys are probably right that it's too harsh, and I was always more unsure about the expiration than the points.

So I'm for a change to 3 months. That should provide a better variety.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

Ryan - estimated launch date?

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

Those database errors set us back a couple weeks. Things are moving along quickly now, though. I just got off the phone with Kiera, and I'd estimate the real switch will happen in about a month or so. But there's a possibility it could be less if everything goes smoothly.

The next step worth mentioning is that within 2-3 days I'll be inviting you guys to poke around and give your thoughts.

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

Is Kiera ready to roll out the main website redesign as well? While poking around with analytics I was surprised to see nearly 50% of the traffic to the forums comes from the 2+2 home page, 2+2 is the #1 referrer for 2+2 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: vB Infractions - Update
 

whiney,

I regularly start my 2+2 experience by logging onto the main page and then clicking the forum login tab. I would suspect others do too, but I probably account for at least 50% of the 50% you're referring to...