Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

This game is sick. Three or more family pots a round, routinely 7 players for two bets, never less than 6 players seeing a flop. The whole game is pretty passive. That being said...

SB (Villain) in this hand is actually one of the more solid players in the game. He is passive, but not as passive as everyone else. I even saw him correctly bet/fold top pair once on the turn, so he kind of knows what he's doing. We're talking a lot and I like him. UTG+1 is just terrible. Plays the majority of his hands, and poorly. His preflop raising range is ginormous; he's one of those guys that will lecture you at the bar about "changing gears".

Canterbury Park 6/12, full game

Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG limps, UTG+1 RAISES, EMP calls, MP calls, HJ calls, CO folds, Hero calls, SB (Villain) calls, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop (8 players, 16 SB):

T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villain bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 RAISES, EMP folds, MP folds, HJ calls, Hero THREEBANGS, Villain calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, HJ calls

Turn (5 players, 16 BB!)

5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

All check, Hero bets, all call!

River (5 players, 21 BB):

5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

All check, Hero bets, Villain RAISES, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls (?), HJ folds, Hero goes into tank and then threetowns...

Meh? I felt this particular player would play a set harder than the flop. On the other hand, we have been talking and I can tell that he has respect for my game. God only knows what UTG+1 is doing.

Thoughts?

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

I dont 3 town.

Villain has check raised the field after the board pairs, after going into a passive mode on the turn. Given the pre flop action, he hasnt put you on two pair, that his overpair to the board just counterfeited, so I have to assume he has a boat.
Only hand he possibly plays this way that you beat is A5diamonds.

UTG+1 being uber passive, I would think has an overpair he can't release, or maybe something like 88/99 if he is a real calling station.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

If villian is a thinking player it's very unlikely he has a set.

If he is a retard then who knows what he has. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Either way I'm down with threebetting.

Rest of the hand is good.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

3 bet is fine. To me, the villain's passive turn play sure makes a flopped set less likely. I mean, what's he worried about getting there with the 5s?
Feels like he went with plan B on running 5's with A5d.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
This game is sick. Three or more family pots a round, routinely 7 players for two bets, never less than 6 players seeing a flop. The whole game is pretty passive. That being said...

SB (Villain) in this hand is actually one of the more solid players in the game. He is passive, but not as passive as everyone else. I even saw him correctly bet/fold top pair once on the turn, so he kind of knows what he's doing. We're talking a lot and I like him. UTG+1 is just terrible. Plays the majority of his hands, and poorly. His preflop raising range is ginormous; he's one of those guys that will lecture you at the bar about "changing gears".

Canterbury Park 6/12, full game

Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG limps, UTG+1 RAISES, EMP calls, MP calls, HJ calls, CO folds, Hero calls, SB (Villain) calls, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop (8 players, 16 SB):

T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villain bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 RAISES, EMP folds, MP folds, HJ calls, Hero THREEBANGS, Villain calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, HJ calls

Turn (5 players, 16 BB!)

5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

All check, Hero bets, all call!

River (5 players, 21 BB):

5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

All check, Hero bets, Villain RAISES, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls (?), HJ folds, Hero goes into tank and then threetowns...

Meh? I felt this particular player would play a set harder than the flop. On the other hand, we have been talking and I can tell that he has respect for my game. God only knows what UTG+1 is doing.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a three bet for the following reasons.

1) Although you have just been check-raised, it doesn't seem likely that either of your opponents has a full boat. UTG+1 just called the raise and is terrible and The villian has not played this hand in a way that would represent a full house. With a board like this I would estimate that there is 15% chance you are beat. This is only an estimate.

2) I don't think it is likely you will get reraised even if you are beat since the SB is passive and the UTG+1 has only been reacting to the bets so far.

3) you have a pretty good chance of getting both players to call since the pot is huge, UTG+1 is terrible, and SB probably has a big enough hand. SB could have 58s or 45s or A5s. I have seen players whom I thought played decent make some marginal to bad calls in what is going to be a big pot.

You don't get big hands often enough to leave bets on the table. Sometimes you will get beat but most of the time you will have the winner. Play the percentages.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
You don't get big hands often enough to leave bets on the table. Sometimes you will get beat but most of the time you will have the winner. Play the percentages.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and that's why I did it at the time.

I wanted to post it and check the play anyway. I find myself questioning the move at the time (not really when I posted the hand) because checkraises on the big streets from passive players in this game are almost always complete doom and gloom. And the board just paired. So I questioned it.

Thank you for your clearly well-thought out response.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

If you 3-bet then I think you have to grit your teeth and fold to 4-bets from villain. If you can't fold to 4, just call the c/r.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you 3-bet then I think you have to grit your teeth and fold to 4-bets from villain. If you can't fold to 4, just call the c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding this river ever is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in poker.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you 3-bet then I think you have to grit your teeth and fold to 4-bets from villain. If you can't fold to 4, just call the c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]
Folding this river ever is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. agreed, Niedlam.

Re: Can I three bet this river? straight, board pair
 

3 bet this. if someone had two pair you would have been raised on the turn.