Mucking and showing hands
 

Player 1 bets on the river. Player 2 calls. Player 2 shows his hand first and player 1 mucks his hand declaring player 2 the winner. Player 2 says he wants to see player 1's cards. Player 2 argues he paid to see the cards. Player 1 argues as long as he declares player 2 the winner he doesn't have to show his cards. Who is correct? Is there any set rule for this or does it depend on individual table rules?

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

at a casino, all called hands can ask to be shown -- player 1 would have to show

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

Every casino or just most? It seems like that could be a rule that varies from place to place. I know that in most homegames if you make it to the river everyone will want you to show.

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

Casino rules are generally that a hand must be shown to win a pot, losing hands may be asked to be seen in the event collusion is suspected.

It is generally permissable to ask to see a hand, however it is considered extremely rude.

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

Player 2 paid to see the cards. He should be able to see the cards.

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

[ QUOTE ]
Player 2 paid to see the cards. He should be able to see the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

No he didn't. He paid to try and win the pot, which he did.

It is NOT worth making a scene over this (I'm a B&M player exclusively) - all you're going to do is piss off the entire table and it is not worth the minimal information gained.

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

Once it goes to showdown you are allowed to see the hand (unless you are in some wierd casino with strange rules). However, it is generally considered bad form to insist.

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

if he really "paid to see the cards", then he's stupid to show them first... other guy doesn't need to show them imo

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

If player 2 wanted to see player 1's cards he shouldn't have shown first. Rules require player 1 to show first. While it is good for the game to turn over your hand as quickly as possible, if you feel you have the winner, and to avoid slow rolling, player 1 still was required to show first and player 2 could have waited.

Asking to see another players cards is extremely rude although it too is within the rules. Typically the rule states any player dealt into a hand has the right to request to see a players hand. The rule also states that if the winner of the hand requests to see the hand, the hand is still live. So, in your example if player 1 misread his hand and player 2 requests to see it, it is still live when turned over and can be declared the winner. So be careful what you ask for.

Re: Mucking and showing hands
 

What difference does it make who shows first? It still doesn't change the fact p2 paid to see p1's cards.

If anyone is guilty of bad form, it's p1.