co vs. button against 2p2er
 

villain is jamie217 a 20/17 tag, no real history. pretty strange hand i guess...

Poker Stars, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $438
Hero (CO): $884.10
BTN: $590.80
SB: $370
BB: $406

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $14</font>, BTN calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($34) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $24</font>, BTN calls $24

Turn: ($82) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $59</font>, BTN calls $59

River: ($200) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $149</font>

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

dont like the turn bet at all. river bet, i could go either way but when all the draws miss i doubt it works. either you're ahead, or he's calling.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

any hand villian has w/ an 8 raises flop or turn. Most likely holding is Jx (maybe busted FD). I like the bet on the end. He will put us on JJ-AA a lot and just muck.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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dont like the turn bet at all. river bet, i could go either way but when all the draws miss i doubt it works. either you're ahead, or he's calling.

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Wtf, I thought it was for value..

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

well it's very very bad for value

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

bluff

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

looks good, even if we value-own ourselves sometimes

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

you guys who think this might be for value are so funny

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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bluff

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Hes not folding Jx very often since its CO vs BTN so just c/f the river.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

i take that back it's a RANGE MERGE lol

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

Flop and turn are both fine.

Are you planning to bet/fold this river if he raises you?

I don't think i bet our here because i hate bet/folding.

Check call probably better.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

OMG Betting this river as a bluff is beyond terrible nobody ever folds Jx or better. If a better hand folds they prob misclicked. I think for value its very thin I'm not sure if its good.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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you guys who think this might be for value are so funny

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could not agree more

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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i take that back it's a RANGE MERGE lol

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well i'd definitely be firing three (for value, to be clear) with KT or AT.

now i admit that with a seven kicker this becomes very thin and a river check can be argued for but since i would not want to fold if villain bets river (leak?) i think we are better off getting a further bet out of him if he does happen to hold something he feels like calling with.

whether we win the hand or not, he will without a doubt be discouraged from making marginal calldowns in future hands, in any case, which is quite helpful considering he's on your direct left.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

c/c the turn.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

Completely don't get/don't like river bet.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

ok well what really "happened" is i misread the board/hand and thought i turned a straight. then i sent this to a couple people and talked with them about it and didn't realize i didnt have a straight until i looked again.

still thought it was interesting, i probably would have bet turn and checked river if i knew what my hand was. c/cing turn sounds fine too.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

I kind of like the river bet as played. From your last post I'm assuming he folded on the river so I may be biased here, but it definitely looks like 910 or flush draw. He'd most likely raise an 8 on earlier streets, and probably raises a J on flop to see where he stands or to represent an 8...drawing hand seems most likely in the end.

As for check/calling, I think most players will fire the river in position if checked to them in this situation regardless of whether he has a hand or not to make you fold a busted draw or maybe a 10.

nh

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

I'm pretty sure check/calling turn is best against almost all villains. River bet is also pretty bad against most villains.

Obviously, this is based on you reading your hand correctly!

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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ok well what really "happened" is i misread the board/hand and thought i turned a straight.

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7...8...T...T...J

WE HAVE A STRAIGHT

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

without history this pretty much blows imo

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

I think we can vbet AT on this river fwiw but 7T is too thin.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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I think we can vbet AT on this river fwiw but 7T is too thin.

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vbetting A10 is pretty bad on this board, Jem is obv not vbetting

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

wrschultz, just out of curiosity, why do you think c/cing is best on turn? If we have intentions of putting money into the pot, why not be the aggressor, I think we have a better chance of winning the hand there before the draws and possible two pair come in. In this hand, I really think we're ahead until the river comes in. TPTK is a good hand on this flop, its possible we're up against a straight, but i doubt he plays a straight like this.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

i'd c/c turn. let him float and bluff with his A hi or whatever.

and the river bet is terrible. check and hope to beat his missed draw or stubborn 55. if he bets then fold unhappily.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

i have no idea what is happening on the turn and on the river...

c/c turn prolly and c/c or c/f river

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

How could AT be a value bet but not T7? He has QT or 9T that often? No.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

I'm convinced 90% of you have no idea wtf is going on.

Either we play totally different games or this forum is in worse shape than I thought.

Betting the river for value? Really?

I'm confused.


Edit: I think we might be able to have an interesting discussion for check/call turn vs betting actually.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

The forum is in bad shape, apparently. And I see absolutely zero merit in betting the turn, pretty much.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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The forum is in bad shape, apparently. And I see absolutely zero merit in betting the turn, pretty much.

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You know, looking back I agree that there isn't much discussion. Fairly simply check/call.

Not sure why I was thinking otherwise for a second.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

YOU GUYS JUST DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE A TRUE LAG!!!!

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

check calling the turn has value only if he is floating.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

or if you have odds to draw to your 100 outer?

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

river plan when you hit a spade or T after check calling the turn? donk for pot and he laughs and folds?

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

i was at the table when this hand happened, and im really surprised if he folds anything but a two street float here (which i think he is very capable of). When you made turn and river bets i was thinking to myself while the hand was going on. "wow id snap call those"

id probably c/f river and i dont mind the turn bet.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

i hate the turn and river. id c/c turn and sometimes c/c river, sometimes c/f. usually c/fing way more without a good read or timing tell.

I am all for value betting thin and often valuepwn myself, but even I wouldnt be better this river for value. if we think we are best, c/cing river is way way better than betting.

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

100% c/shove river

Re: co vs. button against 2p2er
 

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When you made turn and river bets i was thinking to myself while the hand was going on. "wow id snap call those"

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well if i had 9s7s like i thought i did you would have gotten owned [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

TWP and metetron, maybe i'm in really bad shape but can you explain further why betting the turn is so terrible? i think i prefer it to checking even with just the pair of tens/gutshot/flush draw.

and also if anyone needed clarification i know the river bet is beyond terrible, thought i had a straight.