Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

Game is pretty loose and passive generally.

BTN is 41.60/5.56/0.58 over several hundred hands
BB is 40.00/30.00/2.20/20 over only 20 hands

After reviewing this session, my specific question is if my action is too weak/passive on the turn and river, but comments on all streets appreciated. My concern at the time was the pre-flop 3-bet and cap. Even though I hit top pair on the flop and top two pair on the turn, the pre-flop action plus the turn raise made me concerned that villian had AA or KK. Is this just MUBS?

This is my first hand post!!

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3.20
UTG+1: $5
MP1: $6.95
MP2: $17.95
MP3: $8.70
Hero: $10.40
Button: $8.75
SB: $2.50
BB: $3.55

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 2 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB caps</font>, UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (14.4SB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, 2 folds.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8.2BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.2BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 14.2BB

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

I must say the BB's play is truly bizarre. I guess he could have had KK or QQ and have been convinced someone had an A, or he could have misclicked preflop.

The button's flop call could be all sorts of hands, but his turn raise seems a lot like KK or AA. That said, there's only 1 combo of each of those hands left on the turn. You're probably chopping here quite often.

Your hand is strong on the turn, to be sure. The question really comes down to whether you think he'd do something like this with AQ, a pair/flush-draw combo, or something worse.

Playing this way is certainly not MUBS, and I don't really mind this line at all.

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

Although your opponent having KK here is mathematically quite rare, that’s what the action is telling us. But if you don’t have good read on him/her, I wouldn’t suggest folding here. At these limits you just can’t make these “big” lay downs, because these guys are able to play very unorthodoxly. I wouldn’t still raise either, because of the previous action here.

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

What have you seen button 3-bet with? That is a great thing to put in notes about a player.

You aren't going to fold this so your line is fine. If he showed AQ or KQ or something weird make a note.

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What have you seen button 3-bet with? That is a great thing to put in notes about a player.

You aren't going to fold this so your line is fine. If he showed AQ or KQ or something weird make a note.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately I didn't have any notes on BTN's 3-bet range, but I definitely made a note of what he 3-bet with on this hand!

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

Given our statistics on button, I think you played it fine. The only real issue is whether to 3-bet the turn, but we're probably losing to a AA/KK about as often as we're winning against some other bizarrely-played hand, and the rest of the time we're just feeding the rake.

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Although your opponent having KK here is mathematically quite rare, that’s what the action is telling us. But if you don’t have good read on him/her, I wouldn’t suggest folding here. At these limits you just can’t make these “big” lay downs, because these guys are able to play very unorthodoxly. I wouldn’t still raise either, because of the previous action here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about AK? What about A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something similar?

I challenge the idea that the limit has much to do with anything here, and that the only reason we shouldn't fold is that it's micros. I wouldn't fold here even if this were a 10/20+ hand.

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Although your opponent having KK here is mathematically quite rare, that’s what the action is telling us. But if you don’t have good read on him/her, I wouldn’t suggest folding here. At these limits you just can’t make these “big” lay downs, because these guys are able to play very unorthodoxly. I wouldn’t still raise either, because of the previous action here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about AK? What about A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something similar?

I challenge the idea that the limit has much to do with anything here, and that the only reason we shouldn't fold is that it's micros. I wouldn't fold here even if this were a 10/20+ hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was no way I was laying it down. My question was should I slow down after the turn raise. Given the preflop action, I put villian on AA, KK or AK. I'm behind AA and KK and chopping with AK. Is my range too narrow? No way I'm folding on the turn or river, but was I too weak/tight by using such a small range?

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

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Although your opponent having KK here is mathematically quite rare, that’s what the action is telling us. But if you don’t have good read on him/her, I wouldn’t suggest folding here. At these limits you just can’t make these “big” lay downs, because these guys are able to play very unorthodoxly. I wouldn’t still raise either, because of the previous action here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about AK? What about A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something similar?

I challenge the idea that the limit has much to do with anything here, and that the only reason we shouldn't fold is that it's micros. I wouldn't fold here even if this were a 10/20+ hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was no way I was laying it down. My question was should I slow down after the turn raise. Given the preflop action, I put villian on AA, KK or AK. I'm behind AA and KK and chopping with AK. Is my range too narrow? No way I'm folding on the turn or river, but was I too weak/tight by using such a small range?

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probably not, but it would depend for me on whether the stats of "several hundred hands" meant 200 or something like 900. if the latter, it's unlikely but possible that he'd 3 bet QQ or AQs preflop...and then he'd either have to be making a move on you or have AQdd.

Re: Suited Big Slick - Too Weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Although your opponent having KK here is mathematically quite rare, that’s what the action is telling us. But if you don’t have good read on him/her, I wouldn’t suggest folding here. At these limits you just can’t make these “big” lay downs, because these guys are able to play very unorthodoxly. I wouldn’t still raise either, because of the previous action here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about AK? What about A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something similar?

I challenge the idea that the limit has much to do with anything here, and that the only reason we shouldn't fold is that it's micros. I wouldn't fold here even if this were a 10/20+ hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was no way I was laying it down. My question was should I slow down after the turn raise. Given the preflop action, I put villian on AA, KK or AK. I'm behind AA and KK and chopping with AK. Is my range too narrow? No way I'm folding on the turn or river, but was I too weak/tight by using such a small range?

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There is no point raising this up when you think your best case is to split. Without a strong read there isn't much you can do with this hand but call down and throw up in your mouth a little when villain turns over QQ.