KK UTG+2
 

Live tournament with a quite small buy-in. 7k startchips, 33 entries, 7k start chips, 4 prizes.

First period, maybe 10 minutes or so into the tournament and 32 of the 33 players are left in the tournament.

UTG is a pretty straightforward player, maybe a little on the loose side. UTG+1 is a solid cash game player that likes to see flops and have a good basic understanding for tournaments. If he called here his range woulda been very wide but sinse he 3-bet I think his range is pretty tight, something like AK, AQs+, TT+.

Hero has a pretty tight image in both Villians eyes, at least for the early stages of tournaments. I have not been involved in any pots yet in except completing from the SB two times in unraised pots and folded on the flop.

Stacks:
UTG: 6800
UTG+1: 7000
Hero: 6900

25/50, 8 players

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises to 150, UTG+1 raises to 400, Hero..?

Extra questions:

What do you prefer if the blinds and raises was the double ie.

Hypotetic:

50/100, 8 players

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises to 300, UTG+1 raises to 800, Hero..?

What if the blinds was 100/200 and UTG raises 600 and UTG+1 1600?

Same stack sizes in the two extra examples.

EDIT: Fixed title.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

put in another raise , first to 1750, second example shove

live players suck especially considering it is a relatively small buy in.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

live players suck but the def 3 bet wayyyy tighter, and its kk so rr again

Re: KK UTG+1
 

1) raising more than 1200 is a mistake here. I like raising to 1k. That would make the pot ~2500 on the flop and I dont think that UTG can call. One solid flop bet (1500-2k) and we are committed on the turn for a nice <PSB shove.
2) I make it 2400. Shove flop.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

no merits in calling in any of the three examples? not bec we are afraid of aces but bec getting action from other hands than aces since raising an UTG raiser and UTG+1 reraiser shows lots of strength.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

I'm obv way more likely to 4 bet example one than 3. I don't mind a call in 3.

Edit: thought example 3 was 2, didn't see the 2nd. This is what you get when you post/play halo at same time.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm obv way more likely to 4 bet example one than 2. I don't mind a call in 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd think it should be the other way around.

in the first example if we 4-bet are we folding to a 5-bet? seems like the answer should be no, in which case we are making our hand look ridiculously strong w/ 100+bb stacks.

in the 2nd and more so 3rd example we are risking less and less and our hand naturally looks weaker(or at least people have to call less chips which will make their call ranges wider and our play better).

in the first example i'd be kind of surprised if we get action from qq(especially live) if we 4-bet it, in which case the play is imo to call and i don't think it's too close.

i'd call the first two almost for sure, and probably 4-bet the 3rd just cause calling is bordering on the % of effective stacks being too much where i no longer think the previous reasoning applies too much.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

Doesn't flat calling in option one let give a ton of people behind you very good odds to see the flop? That's my concern with example one.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't flat calling in option one let give a ton of people behind you very good odds to see the flop? That's my concern with example one.

[/ QUOTE ]
I kind of like the flat call, as cold 4-betting gives away your hand here. If it winds up 5-way, the pot is pretty big, so I would take my chances someone outflopped me.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't flat calling in option one let give a ton of people behind you very good odds to see the flop? That's my concern with example one.

[/ QUOTE ]

i suppose it does but i'm okay with that. i guess an argument could be made for 4-betting smallish(like 1050) to iso vs the 3-bettor w/ intentions to fold to a 5-bet w/o a read...but if i was gonna do that i'd wanna be pretty damn sure that guys aren't going to 5-bet ak or qq(i'm discounting bluffs). i also think this deep if a guy flat calls behind us and raises a cbet on most boards we don't flop a set on we can probably fold w/o a read.