Another \"starting hands\" question
 

From what I have been reading in the archives (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...1723/site_id/1 see Ed Miller)it seem that SSHE misses a situation ie the open limp/raise. It addresses hands that can be played with no raise but I would say there are lesser hands that can be opened with, for instance A9o in MP, should you open limp or raise, the chart says fold, right or wrong? Are there other marginal hands like this? what are they? Please I know it depends and it is read/conditions dependent, just looking for some guidelines here. thanks

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

I can tell you i'd never open limp A9 from any position.
Usually open raise it from mp3 and mp2. Might also raise from co or button after 1 or 2 bad limpers, if the blinds are tight.

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

Cool, so whose chart is that or is this just your experience? SSHE calls A9o a junk hand on page 74 and my stats make it a looser but I have only played it out of the Big Blind.

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

"Cool, so whose chart is that or is this just your experience?"

It's my own chart. And it's called, "it depends" :P

"SSHE calls A9o a junk hand on page 74 and my stats make it a looser but I have only played it out of the Big Blind."

That's because a) your sample size is probably ridiculously small b) you might not know how to play it.

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

sparky, SSHE is about a type of game where spots you describe dont occur often because there are others already in the pot. Ill steal with A9 and ill situationally isolate with it and sometimes Ill limp in with it in late position if it is a multiway pot against poor predictable loose players. this may not be in SSHE but other books probably discuss it better...im too lazy right now to work out which ones say it best. sigh.

remember its all about whether your hand (when folded to you) is good enough to play and also whether you think playing it will be a moneymaker against the opponents left to act. except for some very specific circumstances if its folded to me from MP onwards then if im playing im raising. yes, thats a very general statement.

if I remember from some PM conversations we had a while ago your attempt to steal %age was low. A9o is probably one of those hands that you dont have in your repotoire. 'trouble hands' can become good hands when in LP and your first in. I suggest adding a few hands at a time to your range when stealing...add more if players yet to act are tight..see how you go...rinse repeat. FWIW in tightish games some of us have a steal%age in close to or >40. It gets pretty hairy at times when you get that deep but it is profitable if you play good postflop

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's because a) your sample size is probably ridiculously small b) you might not know how to play it.

[/ QUOTE ]
b)Right, I don't know how to play it, hell, I don't play it at all and I would not think you would come in with a raise as ATo is listed as a call which makes me think we should be open raising from MP and later with ATo+, no?

[ QUOTE ]
if I remember from some PM conversations we had a while ago your attempt to steal %age was low. A9o is probably one of those hands that you dont have in your repotoire. 'trouble hands' can become good hands when in LP and your first in. I suggest adding a few hands at a time to your range when stealing...add more if players yet to act are tight..see how you go...rinse repeat. FWIW in tightish games some of us have a steal%age in close to or >40. It gets pretty hairy at times when you get that deep but it is profitable if you play good postflop

[/ QUOTE ]
Good memory ozi, I think I am zeroing in on new plays.

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

FWIW I open raise AT pretty much anywhere. But I don't play A9 a lot unless its sOOthed or I'm stealing.

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I open raise AT pretty much anywhere. But I don't play A9 a lot unless its sOOthed or I'm stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]
and what about opening with these quys, KJo, KTo, QJo, QTo and JTo

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

yep, generally I steal with those in LP.

edit: incase its not clear a 'steal' (particulary with that range) is often really a value raise and another way of thinking about it is that if you win 0.75BB with what you might think is a marginal hand then thats a pretty good result.

Re: Another \"starting hands\" question
 

A8o from MP3 for me is a steal/value raise against all but the strongest remaining opponents.

I had trouble for a bit with A8 and A9o but have calmed my post flop play with it a bit and its helped fix the problem.