AK hitting nothing
 

I feel like I have put to much money in with nothing, how is this hand played? Should I fire again on the turn?

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

SB: $99.00
BB: $30.55
UTG: $24.80
MP: $104.20
CO: $98.50
Button: $108.95

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls $1, <font color="#FF0000">Button raises to $4.50</font>, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, BB folds, CO folds, Button calls $7.50.

Flop: ($26.00) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets $20</font>, Button calls $20.

Turn: ($66.00) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($66.00) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">Button bets $42</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $66.00

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

This isnt really what your asking but is anyone out there crazy enough to bluff catch here? Most players at nl 100 arent good value betters and will be happy to take fsd with 66 &amp; 88 and their value bet wont be nearly as big as 2/3 pot with these hands. Very slim chance he has TT/JJ as most players would play those hands fast. His river bet more then likely is a flopped monster,busted draw, air, or 22-44 turned into air. Pretty much if this guy isnt some kind of tag I am looking him up here
To answer your question though I would give up on this turn in a 3 bet pot, I'm sure you could fire another barrel depending on your image and his ability to fold a winner but against most your burning money. Bring on the flaming.

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

At first glance I would say I'd play it the same way, but then I started thinking about recent reading in PNL I've been doing talking about commitment.

I'm afraid your flop bet is pretty committing, and I don't know if I would want to commit to the pot with A-high. All you can do after the flop bet is either go all-in or fold.

So what would be the better play? You have AKs, but you've got horrible position. A 3-bet pre-flop is good, but I hate the position and the pot-size on the flop. Check/fold on the flop? On the flop I wonder if a c/r all-in would have the fold-equity you'd like. Meh...

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

I make it more like 15 preflop, and bet somewhat less on the flop. A bet between 1/2-2/3 pot gets the job done here in a RRed pot OOP.

As for the question of whether or not to fire the turn, this depends on your opponent. If I feel like he will call a lot of flop CBs, then I'll fire again on the turn.

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

Grunch,

How do feel about 2nd barrels on the paired boards? I tend to do it more often though I'm not sure how 'correct' that thinking is. It's more of a "it seems to work well" feeling I have based upon recent history.

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

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I'm afraid your flop bet is pretty committing, and I don't know if I would want to commit to the pot with A-high.

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Are you saying we can't fold to a raise on the flop? Seems like a pretty easy fold to me.

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid your flop bet is pretty committing, and I don't know if I would want to commit to the pot with A-high.

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Are you saying we can't fold to a raise on the flop? Seems like a pretty easy fold to me.

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No, I meant for the rest of the hand.. we just have a PSB left... although maybe thats good if we spike an A or K on the turn and then can bet pot to get it all in.

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch,

How do feel about 2nd barrels on the paired boards? I tend to do it more often though I'm not sure how 'correct' that thinking is. It's more of a "it seems to work well" feeling I have based upon recent history.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would the 2nd barrel be? 1/2 pot on the turn? Seems like you'd have to go all in based on stack/pot sizes in this hand.

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch,

How do feel about 2nd barrels on the paired boards? I tend to do it more often though I'm not sure how 'correct' that thinking is. It's more of a "it seems to work well" feeling I have based upon recent history.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that I have a little more FE against many opponents on a paired board -- especially the tight ones, but also including the loose ones. But there's another class of player against which I think we have less FE, and that's the cynical player. The one who calls a lot of cbets, hates getting bluffed, and likes to make heroic calls. It could also elicit a few more calls from marginal pocket pairs that were otherwise playing for set value, but they will tend to fold when we follow-up on the turn. I would be pretty wary of getting Baluga'ed however.

Re: AK hitting nothing
 

[ QUOTE ]
I make it more like 15 preflop, and bet somewhat less on the flop. A bet between 1/2-2/3 pot gets the job done here in a RRed pot OOP.


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I agree with both of these points.

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As for the question of whether or not to fire the turn, this depends on your opponent. If I feel like he will call a lot of flop CBs, then I'll fire again on the turn.

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The issue there is that the type of player that calls alot of cbets also is usually the type of player to stack off any overpair. IMO while it is important to follow through on the turn occasionally it is better done against a TAG-type player who might lay down a small overpair.

Surf