30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

MP raises. I call on button w/ ATcc, SB calls.

Flop is A T 6 two spades. SB leads, MP raises, I flat call. SB calls.

Turn is a King off. SB and MP checks, I bet, SB folds, MP calls.

River is a King spades. MP checks, I check. He mucks.

Should I have 3 bet the flop? Should I bet the river? MP is pretty straight forward and tight. SB is pretty loose but not a maniac.

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

i would 3b pf depending on the table.. DEF 3b on the flop then bet bet would be ok i suppose... but then again i play bad

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

Readless, I'd fold preflop.

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

If you aren't betting river then why are you calling preflop.

PF is never a call. 3b or fold, with folding being much better. I 3bet this flop.

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

you fold preflop.

yes you bet the river, he showed no strength on the turn when the K hit and you bet, why would you not value bet the river?

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
Readless, I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

borderline nittish though, AT suited on the button ? Would you 3ball AJs ?

And that flop is exactly the flop you need to jam with a flush draw and straight draw. raiser up

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Readless, I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

borderline nittish though, AT suited on the button ? Would you 3ball AJs ?


[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think a typical MP raiser's range is at this level?

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

river is an easy bet and i call a raise too.

3b the flop too but this is closer.

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Readless, I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

borderline nittish though, AT suited on the button ? Would you 3ball AJs ?


[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think a typical MP raiser's range is at this level?

[/ QUOTE ]

66-AA, AK-ATish, KQ, all suited broadway, and maybe suited A's as low as A8s. something like that. I'm certainly comfortable enough to play that hand on the button against that range.

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

3 bet the flop

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

i'm assuming you coldcalled the flop so you could raise the turn? that is okay sometimes, but usually you should just 3-bet there.

river is actually closer than people make it out to be. your kicker doesn't play anymore so the real question is could this guy have anything other than an ace here? i think its very likely he has QQ/JJ. would he call the river with those hands? the other portions of the time i think you are chopping a lot and occasionally going to be losing to AQ/AJ more than a frequent amount of time actually.

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Readless, I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

borderline nittish though, AT suited on the button ? Would you 3ball AJs ?


[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think a typical MP raiser's range is at this level?

[/ QUOTE ]

66-AA, AK-ATish, KQ, all suited broadway, and maybe suited A's as low as A8s. something like that. I'm certainly comfortable enough to play that hand on the button against that range.

[/ QUOTE ]


Eh you're still a dog against this range. You are OTB, but you also have bad RIO issues...hardly nittish. I think its close though. FWIW I do threebet AJs in this spot.

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

I would just 3 bet the flop bc most of sb's hand's aren't donking 4th street so u can't raise both players, and if you raise 4th when mp leads then you KO all of sbs hands that he is correct to fold.

river is a bet honestly. mp shouldn't have an ace after he checks that flop. u need to give him the option to pay you off with QQ, JJ. Remember: he can't call if you don't bet

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would 3b pf depending on the table.. DEF 3b on the flop then bet bet would be ok i suppose... but then again i play bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I would just fold PF vs most raisers b/c we are a 3:2 dog vs a typical live player's raising range, and we usually don't make any money when we hit (but we will frequently lose more vs a better ace)

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

671,223,168 games 0.005 secs 134,244,633,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 59.230% 53.78% 05.45% 360986280 36577020.00 { 99+, A9s+, KJs+, ATo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 40.770% 35.32% 05.45% 237082848 36577020.00 { ATs }

Re: 30/60 . AT flopping top two pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm assuming you coldcalled the flop so you could raise the turn? that is okay sometimes, but usually you should just 3-bet there.

river is actually closer than people make it out to be. your kicker doesn't play anymore so the real question is could this guy have anything other than an ace here? i think its very likely he has QQ/JJ. would he call the river with those hands? the other portions of the time i think you are chopping a lot and occasionally going to be losing to AQ/AJ more than a frequent amount of time actually.

[/ QUOTE ]

chris,

How does he raise the flop with AJ, AQ and then check the turn with it?

Ok yeah, IT HAPPENS sometimes, but not wayy way too often.

As for him paying off with JJ, QQ, that happens pretty often. Sure not all the time, but often enough