Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

Dania Jai Alai, which does not have that dumbass non-muck policy I referenced in another post:

2/4 LHE. As usual, four or five people table at showdown on a non-flush board of JQ525. A few hands show a pair, one guy shows A5 and another shows 22. Dealer mucks the pair hands, announces "trip 5s," and "trip deuces" and mucks the deuces. Simultaneously, trip deuces guy's cell phone rings, he answers his phone and steps away from the table without saying a word.

As dealer is about to shove the pot to A5, someone else at the table says, "That guy had two deuces, so he had a full house." A couple of other players agree, the dealer says, "Yes, I saw that," and shoves to pot to the player who had the deuces, who's still away from the table talking on his cell phone and is showing no interest in what is going on at the table -- in fact, he's oblivious.

Guy with A5 protests, but everyone shouts him down and the next hand is dealt. A5 did not ask for a floor ruling.

Had he done so, what should the floor's ruling be?

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

Pocket 2's win. Dealer, with a little help, got it right.

Kudos to the other players for speaking up.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

Agreed, this happened exactly as it should have. Well, as it should have after it was realized the winner was mucked.

A hand that's tabled maintains all claims of the pot, regardless of what happens to the cards after that point.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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Guy with A5 protests,

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On what basis?

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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Guy with A5 protests,

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On what basis?

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Probably on the basis that the dealer said he won the hand.

To the OP: What was the real winner's reaction when he got back to the table?

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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Guy with A5 protests,

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On what basis?

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Probably on the basis that the dealer said he won the hand.

To the OP: What was the real winner's reaction when he got back to the table?

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He sat out a hand or two. I don't think he ever had a clue what happened.

If I'm A5 guy, I'm not so much troubled that the pot got shoved to 22, but I'm a little irritated at the big mouths at the table who had no business getting involved in it.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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Guy with A5 protests,

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On what basis?

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Probably on the basis that the dealer said he won the hand.


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It could have been that he never saw the 2's and so disputes the fact that he did in fact lose. Maybe he thought the guy showed 2-3 suited.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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If I'm A5 guy, I'm not so much troubled that the pot got shoved to 22, but I'm a little irritated at the big mouths at the table who had no business getting involved in it.

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So you want to be awarded a pot you are not entitled to?
Everybody at the table has every right, maybe even an obligation, to make sure the pot goes to the right person.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

yeah dude once the cards are opened it's everyone's business.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

soulvamp - as the others are pointing out, you are wrong.
Once the cards are tabled it is up to everyone to correct obvious dealer mistakes should they see one.

The A5 guy had no right to the pot and no justification to be upset at anyone for correcting the dealer.
You seem to play live often enough that I would think you should already know that.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by soulvamp

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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soulvamp - as the others are pointing out, you are wrong.
Once the cards are tabled it is up to everyone to correct obvious dealer mistakes should they see one.

The A5 guy had no right to the pot and no justification to be upset at anyone for correcting the dealer.
You seem to play live often enough that I would think you should already know that.

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What am I wrong about, Bob? I didn't take a stand on this, just posed the scenario.

If I'm A5 guy (which I wasn't), I'm muttering to myself about the table cops, who generally do annoy me almost as much as those idiots who can't keep their hands off their cell phones. But I'm not saying anything and am not going to disagree with the result. My general feeling here is that -- in a cash game, not a tournament, which is a different story -- if the guy loses out on the pot that was righfully his simply because he's too distracted by his damn cell phone, it serves him right.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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soulvamp - as the others are pointing out, you are wrong.
Once the cards are tabled it is up to everyone to correct obvious dealer mistakes should they see one.

The A5 guy had no right to the pot and no justification to be upset at anyone for correcting the dealer.
You seem to play live often enough that I would think you should already know that.

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What am I wrong about, Bob? I didn't take a stand on this, just posed the scenario.

If I'm A5 guy (which I wasn't), I'm muttering to myself about the table cops, who generally do annoy me. But I'm not saying anything and am not going to disagree with the result.

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What are you muttering about? This isn't an issue where some nit, not even involved in the hand, is protesting a slightly possible string bet that has no impact on him whatsoever.

This is a situation where it is every players responsibility to ensure fairness is upheld. The hand was tabled, several players, including the dealer saw and knew what it was. Once the correct hand values where determined the rightful winner received the pot.

If anyone routinely plays live and allows something like this to happen without speaking up then I have little hope for the continued popularity of poker.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

Agreed that everyone has an obligation to speak up if they see an error. How many people can say that if an error was done to them, they wouldn't want someone to speak up?

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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My general feeling here is that -- in a cash game, not a tournament, which is a different story -- if the guy loses out on the pot that was righfully his simply because he's too distracted by his damn cell phone, it serves him right.

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The idiot on the phone should definitely be paying better attention and make sure the pot is correctly shoved to him.

But whether it's due to his phone or he's just oblivious, if the pot is awarded to the wrong player and you are the only one who notices than you have an obligation to speak-up whether you were involved in the hand or not.

So kudos to the other players who CORRECTLY got involved in this situation and righted a wrong.

There are situations like this, with all cards turned up and it's just a dealer mistake, that other players are supposed to correct obvious errors.
Then there are situations such as some guy perhaps string-betting where players who are not involved in the hand should not be saying a damn thing.

A common type of situation where everyone should shut up is if the board read AKQJT or something and everyone is going to aplit the pot. If somebody is hesitating on whether to call a bet or not because he doesn't correctly see the board or just doesn't understand the rules it is clear that everyone should mind their own business and not say anything.

See the difference here?
The one you saw involved people who had already turned over their hole-cards. The 'cards speak' now. If the dealer makes a mistake it doesn't matter...the cards have already spoken so that mistake NEEDS to be corrected and it doesn't matter who does it. Anyone who sees it should correct it.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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soulvamp - as the others are pointing out, you are wrong.
Once the cards are tabled it is up to everyone to correct obvious dealer mistakes should they see one.

The A5 guy had no right to the pot and no justification to be upset at anyone for correcting the dealer.
You seem to play live often enough that I would think you should already know that.

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What am I wrong about, Bob? I didn't take a stand on this, just posed the scenario.

If I'm A5 guy (which I wasn't), I'm muttering to myself about the table cops, who generally do annoy me almost as much as those idiots who can't keep their hands off their cell phones. But I'm not saying anything and am not going to disagree with the result. My general feeling here is that -- in a cash game, not a tournament, which is a different story -- if the guy loses out on the pot that was righfully his simply because he's too distracted by his damn cell phone, it serves him right.

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Wow. Just...wow.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

It's hard enough sometimes to keep a player in a game when he thinks he's out-skilled.

Throw in the possibility of shady behavior and watch your game dry up real fast. Making it every players responsibility to ensure that the player who shows down the best hand is awarded the pot also prevents dealers from stealing pots from tourists and awarding them to pals.

If you don't see why this is a good thing you have to be a short sighted selfish jerk totally focused on immediate gratification.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

" Making it every players responsibility to ensure that the player who shows down the best hand is awarded the pot also prevents dealers from stealing pots from tourists and awarding them to pals."


good point.
also makes it less likely for sneaks to try to trick dealers into giving you the pot.
Some dealers are new or tired and obviously aren't going to be perfect.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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Guy with A5 protests,

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On what basis?

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Probably on the basis that the dealer said he won the hand.



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LOL God forbid that cards actually speak though, roflmao. GD angle shooting douches. And once the hands are turned face up and read, then everyone at the table has a moral obligation to make sure the appropriate person (winner) recieves the pot.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

". Simultaneously, trip deuces guy's cell phone rings, he answers his phone and steps away from the table without saying a word."


Doyle Bunson says in order to be a great cash game player you have to have little regard for money.

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

You think Doyle would get up at showdown and answer a cell phone call?

Re: Dealer mucks winning hand but shoves him the pot anyway
 

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You think Doyle would get up at showdown and answer a cell phone call?

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I've dealt to him and yes, he'll do it. Usually these guys don't get up though.