Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

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Pro, backed by accountable people.


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I think this is going to be a problem. Define "accountable people" please.

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Ok, if we are in a situation where people can make their own currency this is what an accountable person would be for that. Someone that I could directly punish by not using their currency and moving my business to another currency place. Then I could write in my blog telling people about my horror story with this old currency provider that mass produced their currency and based it upon nothing and continually tried to make me poor by making the currency I got from them worthless. Then more people would know about it and the old place I got my currency from would have to think twice before they decide to run a currency system that does not benefit the people who use that currency.

Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

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Pro, backed by accountable people.

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It would probably be prudent to wait and see what the Liberty Dollar guys got raided for before lauding their accountability.

edit: wtf falcon stop posting so fast

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I am not saying the liberty folk are accountable people. They hypothetically could be, they have a better shot at being accountable than other systems that exist today.

Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

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Ok, if we are in a situation where people can make their own currency this is what an accountable person would be for that. Someone that I could directly punish by not using their currency and moving my business to another currency place. Then I could write in my blog telling people about my horror story with this old currency provider that mass produced their currency and based it upon nothing and continually tried to make me poor by making the currency I got from them worthless. Then more people would know about it and the old place I got my currency from would have to think twice before they decide to run a currency system that does not benefit the people who use that currency.

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What if your business goes belly up from this bad currency? What if the currency only goes bad because I do an awesome job of making counterfeits? Should the US courts be responsible for enforcing laws wrt your private currency problems?

Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

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Ok, if we are in a situation where people can make their own currency this is what an accountable person would be for that. Someone that I could directly punish by not using their currency and moving my business to another currency place. Then I could write in my blog telling people about my horror story with this old currency provider that mass produced their currency and based it upon nothing and continually tried to make me poor by making the currency I got from them worthless. Then more people would know about it and the old place I got my currency from would have to think twice before they decide to run a currency system that does not benefit the people who use that currency.

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What if your business goes belly up from this bad currency? What if the currency only goes bad because I do an awesome job of making counterfeits? Should the US courts be responsible for enforcing laws wrt your private currency problems?

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Only to the same extent they want to take it upon themselves to arbitrate any private property/contractual disputes.

Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

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What if your business goes belly up from this bad currency?

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You move to another currency. What do you do if your business goes belly up due to the only currency available going bad? Where do you move then?

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What if the currency only goes bad because I do an awesome job of making counterfeits?

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You move to another currency. What do you do if the only currency goes bad because someone is awesome at making counterfeits? What if making counterfeits was legal for some institutions? Where do you move then?

Also, currency providers would be aware of this problem and work hard to ensure that it is very hard if not impossible to make counterfeits.

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Should the US courts be responsible for enforcing laws wrt your private currency problems?

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Well, the US courts enforce laws wrt any other private business, why not private currency business?

Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

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Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. According to the NORFED website, "Lib

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it's just a total effort to keep the monopoly the powers have on money.

it's pretty clear that statute applies to counterfeiting not somethingn like the liberty dollar.

what that means is that liberty dollar guys can ultimately win in court almost certainly if that is it (maybe patriot act and stuff might make stuff like this semi illegal money laundering or someting though),

but the big boys have decided to put them through the wringer figuring they can nip this in the bud through force fraud and intimidation (isn't that terrorism?), kinda like the job they did on e-gold.

Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
 

I guess I'm going to have to stop posting the link to their website as proof that alternate currencies are legal. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Although, given the similarities their currency has to dollars, it could be argued they were counterfeiting.

Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

You can't move to another currency if your business has gone belly up. How are these private currency companies turning a profit?

Edit: These are all just hypothetical questions about what might happen with private currency in today's US.

Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver
 

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You can't move to another currency if your business has gone belly up. How are these private currency companies turning a profit?

[/ QUOTE ] Maybe not, but having just one currency doesn't eliminate this problem, it only makes it worse, because other people cannot learn from your mistake and move to another currency and you cannot do so in the future with your new business.

And those companies turn a profit by having a spread between the ask and bid price of their currency. Of course, due to competition, this spread will shrink over time until it's as small as possible.

Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
 

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I guess I'm going to have to stop posting the link to their website as proof that alternate currencies are legal. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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We don't really know why the FBI raided the office; it may not be because the FBI is asserting that alternate currencies are illegal. Second, the raid is obviously going to be challenged, so the FBI is going to have to defend itself and it's decision to raid.

In other words, I'm not sure why we're automatically concluding that alternative currencies are illegal merely because the FBI raided this office. It's just as possible these guys were defrauding their customers or failing to pay their taxes, or were suspected of violating some other law. Or maybe the feds got over aggressive.