Re: IGN Top 100
 

Tomba!

Re: IGN Top 100
 

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Mario 64 should be like number 99. It was a great game when it came out and was revolutionary, but it's borderline unplayable now because of the camera angles.

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this is crazy. Mario 64, along with Ocarina of Time (and maybe Link to the Past) may be the game in history that holds up best. The camera angles really aren't that bad and everything else about the game is flawless. If you took a kid who hasn't been exposed to video games yet and had him play Super Mario 64 and 5 games of your choosing, I think he would say SM64 is the best a vast majority of the time.

Re: IGN Top 100
 

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Mario 64 should be like number 99. It was a great game when it came out and was revolutionary, but it's borderline unplayable now because of the camera angles.

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Mario 64 and OOT are the only reasons I still have a N64 in my attic. Mario 64 should be in the #15 at least and possibly top 5. It revolutionized the 3d platformer and is still fun to play ten years later.

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I love SM64, but most of the difficulty in the game came from game mechanics, like camera issues.

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Mario 64 should be like number 99. It was a great game when it came out and was revolutionary, but it's borderline unplayable now because of the camera angles.

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Poor post on so many levels. If it is unplayable now, it was always unplayable. Just because other games have improved camera doesn't mean SM64 isn't one of the most fun games of all time (note I didn't say revolutionary). That's like saying SMB3 is unplayable today because the graphics suck. It is not hard to adjust your camera, and is only relevant in certain situations. For most of the game the camera isn't a big problem and certainly doesn't render it unplayable.

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Back when it was first released camera issues were still a problem, but you could overlook it because the game was innovative and people didn't have an expectation of competent camera mechanics.

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That's like saying SMB3 is unplayable today because the graphics suck.

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Not even close to the same. SMB3's poor graphics don't make it difficult for the player to interact with the game. SM64's poor camera makes it difficult for the player to interact with the game.

Also to Junt Monkey: Basically every Crash Bandicoot game is better than Mario 64

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Also to Junt Monkey: Basically every Crash Bandicoot game is better than Mario 64

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that's a really bold statement. I think it would take a whole lot to top SM64

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Crash Bandicoot may not have the open worlds, but it does have the fast-paced, platforming fun that is superior to Mario 64. Then when you consider that there are no camera issues it's a slam dunk.

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Mario 64 has better camera angles than 95% or more games out there now where camera can be considered an issue (see 2D games fighting games and most sports games). I said it and I'm not taking it back. There are no open 3D platform and adventure games when the camera doesn't get in the way at some point if the camera is being controlled by the user. Factzor. Mario 64>Banjo-Kazooie>Sonic Adventure>Sunshine>Jak and Dexter>Mario Galaxy...you will be frustrated by camera angles in every one of these games at some point. It happens.

"but you could overlook it because the game was innovative and people didn't have an expectation of competent camera mechanics."

Yeah, and Mario 64 invented those mechanics. 99th...lols.

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Also to Junt Monkey: Basically every Crash Bandicoot game is better than Mario 64

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Serious questions: When is the last time you played Mario 64? I can only assume it has been a very long time ago, because the game is brilliant with a few issues and that is being picky. I've played two Crash games (although not the highest scoring Warped or whatever). They aren't even close to the same level, merely in the same genre (yeah, you jump in both...)

Reviews for the 3 crash games on IGN were 7.5, 8.1, and 9.1.
So after 3 tries, Crash's best effort wasn't very close to Mario 64's one game.

Mario 64's was: 9.8

"Nintendo 64's early flagship title demonstrates the power of the hardware as well as the creative genius of Miyamoto and team. Not only does the game obliterate every platformer before it in terms of visual finesse, it plays just as well if not infinitely better than previous 2D incarnations of the Mario franchise. 3D worlds are huge and cleverly laid-out so that there's never a dull moment. Secrets play a huge part of the experience, recapturing the classic gameplay style of the series. In fact, this game is exactly as one might hope it would be: Mario in 3D. More freedom, more space, more options, better graphics, improved and elaborated control schemes -- it's all there. Possibly the greatest videogame achievement ever. Don't rent. Buy."

Mario 64 is seen high up on almost every top 100 or best videogames ever list. It is usually a top 10 title. I'm not sure I have ever seen a Crash game on almost any top list.

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Two of my all time favourite games in this update, Fallout at 33 and Grim Fandango at 36.

Must admit I was hoping they'd get a bit higher, and now I want to play [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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SMB3 at #39 is about 37 places too low, aside from that there's nothing hugely wtf-worthy from 40-31

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Deus Ex could be higher.

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SMB3...yeah...but I'm sure Super Mario World will get in there deservingly. And I dunno I kind of think World is just as deserving as 3.

Go go Majora's Mask at 31. Sickly awesome Zelda game, so underrated.

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Go go Majora's Mask at 31. Sickly awesome Zelda game, so underrated.

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That game was way, way too short.

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I agree that Majora's Mask was way too short, but I give them a lot of credit for taking the concept that was essentially the same for every Zelda game through OOT and making it different. The fact that there were some spots where you were pressed for time was interesting, and the amount of sidequests and explorable things in that game were pretty large. I think it's fairly rated.

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NO DOTA THAN I JUST DONT CARE

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Happy to see Secret of Mana on the list

Surprised to see Link's Awakening. Good game though.

Star Fox is a great game, but SF64 better be on the list then.

FF7 makes the list at 76, although it would hit #1 in most overrated RPGs. Take out the FMVs and it's average. The game pales to FF6,C Trigger, Secret of Mana,FFT, and Suikoden 2

Goldeneye, the game I played to death 7th-8th grade. Classic

RE1 makes the list, it was a good game for it's time and did start the RE franchise, and inspired Silent Hill and Fatal Frame (among others)

Tecmo Bowl? No TSB? Outrageous.

MGS2 is kind of high on the list. The plot was awful.

Mega Man 2! W00T

Wolfenstein, great game but liked Doom more.

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JB,

Thanks a lot for your post. Its clear that you put a lot of thought into it, and thats one of the things that I really respect about you. However, why are you so certain that Tecmo Super Bowl won't make the list? It has been near the top every other year, so why wouldn't it this year?


On a completely different note, am I the only one who thinks Wind Waker is underrated? I enjoyed that more than MM or OOT because the camera and fighting was a lot smoother. Anyway, have a great night Jack, and I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Love,
Assani

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On a completely different note, am I the only one who thinks Wind Waker is underrated?

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I think WW is a phenomenal game and constantly an underrated Zelda game. I also think Zelda 2 (Link's Awakening) is one of the best games ever so maybe I just like the games "normal" Zelda fans think are the weaker ones. I wouldn't put WW above Twilight Princess or Ocarina...but I would rank it right about even with Majora's Mask. So you aren't alone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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On a completely different note, am I the only one who thinks Wind Waker is underrated?

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I think WW is a phenomenal game and constantly an underrated Zelda game. I also think Zelda 2 (Link's Awakening) is one of the best games ever so maybe I just like the games "normal" Zelda fans think are the weaker ones. I wouldn't put WW above Twilight Princess or Ocarina...but I would rank it right about even with Majora's Mask. So you aren't alone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I'd go 1. Ocarina of Time 2. Link to the Past 3. Wind Waker 4. Majora's Mask 5. Twilight Princess 6. Phantom Hourglass


Twilight Princess was a great game, but the lack of people in the world (same with Phantom Hourglass) really annoyed me.

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1. Ocarina 2. LTTP 3. Majora's Mask 4. Twilight Prince 5. Wind Waker for me. I really hated the fact that WW had too much sailing, too much tedious treasure hunting, too small of a land world. Still an amazing game, but weaker than the other in my book. Boss battles were jokes, never really a serious threat of death, but from the start of game till the master sword was near perfect.

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Ugh, I really hoped that Pokemon Blue/Red would place better than 37, might be the greatest Gameboy game ever.

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Ugh, I really hoped that Pokemon Blue/Red would place better than 37, might be the greatest Gameboy game ever.

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Pokemon RBY is OK, but that statement is lol-worthy.

30-21 is a bit odd, by their criteria SFII should be nowhere near that low, and they're using up too many of their "cult PC games that were great but nobody bought" selections here. Also nobody's going to remember KotoR in three years' time, and Mario Kart basically was fine for a couple of years until Street Racer did everything better and MK64 surpassed it completely

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The Zelda series goes OoT, LA, ALttP, TP and LoZ for me. Tried MM but got bored of it after the great bay temple made me lose the will to live. Tried playing Zelda 2 but could never get into it. Borrowed Wind Waker off someone but never actually put it in the Cube as Ikaruga was taking up too much time

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there is a lot of talk about halo and the like surpassing goldeneye. fwiw, i don't even really like the halo series that much, but i will still play goldeneye from time to time.

also i would agree that there is a distinction between "great for its time" and just flat out "great right now"

games like OOT, goldeneye, smb64, smb3, and ff6 still fit that criteria of greatness for me.

of my childhood favorites, super mario kart has slipped imo and is actually probably suprassed by the gameboy advance mario kart.

haven't checked the list lately, but is civ4 up there? i could see that game still being great 15 years from now.

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ugh. i don't think i could eat knowing i talked bad about super mario kart. i still [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] it!!!!!

re: mike tyson's punchout. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

re: street figher 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
although i've always felt that sf2 got overlooked once the wave of 3d fighting games came out.

also, there sure are a lot of pc games i've never heard of in here, which makes me sad. =(

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I'm quite stoked Dragon Warrior was ranked so high.

First RPG I ever played and I loved the Dragon Warrior Series while despising the Final Fantasy series at the time.

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Nice to see warcraft 2 in there so high. (Warcraft 3 better not be, and starcraft should be top 10 probably).

Aside, so did anyone else here go in and change the acknowledgments for the different characters. I mean a lot were pretty sweet already (especially when you kept clicking them) but I think I ended up a bunch anyway.

Edit - it irritates me that I only have this for the mac, and never bothered picking up a $20 box pack for the PC before it was taken off the shelf.

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Nice to see warcraft 2 in there so high. (Warcraft 3 better not be, and starcraft should be top 10 probably).

Aside, so did anyone else here go in and change the acknowledgments for the different characters. I mean a lot were pretty sweet already (especially when you kept clicking them) but I think I ended up a bunch anyway.

Edit - it irritates me that I only have this for the mac, and never bothered picking up a $20 box pack for the PC before it was taken off the shelf.

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i remember downloading wardraft or w/e it was called and changed the animation of the gryphon attack from the original to something else...but i dont remember what i changed it to [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Oh man, I forgot about those mods. iirc they had some pretty cool themes developed.

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Anyone remember the Point Blank games for Playstation? those were awesome

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they're using up too many of their "cult PC games that were great but nobody bought" selections here

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Uh, what? X-Com: UFO Defense is the only one of those games I'm not familiar with and SS2 is the only other one that might be considered a "cult game nobody bought," and it's deservedly on that list because it's one of the best shooters ever (see Zero Punctuation's BioShock review for reference). Warcraft II, SimCity 2000, and Half-Life aren't cult games, nor did nobody buy them.

I'm glad they didn't ride Half-Life's nuts into the top 25, although I'm sure HL2 will be a little overrated.

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Shadow of the Colossus is a huge stretch at #16. I mean I love the game and all but it is between Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Super Mario World. I know Shadow is pretty and all, but come on.

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Oh, didn't realize they were into top 20. Obv they massively underrate Doom's staying power. 19? Please, it was the birth of a [censored] genre, was light-years ahead of anything else out at the time and is still playable and fun today with source mods.

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they're using up too many of their "cult PC games that were great but nobody bought" selections here

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Uh, what? X-Com: UFO Defense is the only one of those games I'm not familiar with and SS2 is the only other one that might be considered a "cult game nobody bought," and it's deservedly on that list because it's one of the best shooters ever (see Zero Punctuation's BioShock review for reference). Warcraft II, SimCity 2000, and Half-Life aren't cult games, nor did nobody buy them.

I'm glad they didn't ride Half-Life's nuts into the top 25, although I'm sure HL2 will be a little overrated.

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Man, I think XCom and HL were placed much too low. I didn't like HL2 nearly as much as the original, so if HL2 is in the top 10, I'll be very sad. The guys at IGN's PC branch clearly didn't have much say in this list, since they crowned XCom the #1 PC game of all time, and deservedly so imo. Yet, they mention that the PC guys gave it the #1, and they stick it behind a bunch of other great, but not quite as perfect (imo) PC games.

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its a shame that Sensible Soccer didnt make the list...dont think it will be top 10

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Way too much love for Nintendo on this list, especially for the overrated SNES.

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I'm struggling to come up with what games will be locks for the top 10.

The only ones I can think of right now are
Super Mario 64
Zelda OOT

I'd have to think Civilization 4 will be up there. Not sure if it will, but I think it should be. As for what else, I have no idea.

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civilization 2 will be up there for how cutting edge it was at the time, not civ 4. My predictions for the top 10

Super Mario 64
Zelda OOT
Super Metroid
Tetris
A Link to the Past
Half Life 2
Civilization 2
Star Control 2?
Resident Evil 4??
Tecmo Super Bowl???

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I'm struggling to come up with what games will be locks for the top 10.

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Final Fantasy III seems to be a lock, agreed Civ4 will probably make it too.

EDIT: Eh, thinking about it FFIII probably isn't even a good choice, sick sick game but FFII was more breakthrough (already on list), just that Chrono Trigger was up there and FFIII hadn't shown yet seemed odd.

People on IGN seem to be suspecting GOW and RE4, while both great games, I doubt to see them on here, but who knows.