200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

Villian is a 35/12/1.4. What line would have worked better? I thought i was getting value but apparently not

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($391.50)
MP ($428.30)
CO ($417.25)
Button ($110.40)
Hero ($222)
BB ($200)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($16) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $12</font>, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($40) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $35</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $70</font>, Hero calls $35.

River: ($180) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $144</font>

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

I 3-bet this PF against a 35/12/1.4

As played on the flop, you should have c/r the flop to $40.

As played on the turn, standard, with that raise you are most likely beat.

River easy fold.

(wow... you botched this hand)

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

I'd either lead or checkraise flop depending on my image and how the table's been running. Check/calling the flop sucks as you don't get any information about villains hand. The turn minraise gives you a hint and the river is obviously a clear check/fold.

I'd also 3-bet preflop most of the time.

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

I fold to the turn raise, personally. On this board, I don't mind your flop/turn line, although I'd have 3-bet it pre-flop against this guy. If it were a bit drier, I would c/c turn and bet river 1/2 pot for value if turn is checked through, check folding river if he bet turn.

As played, fold river.

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

Why do you all love check raising flop so much more than calling and leading the turn?

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you all love check raising flop so much more than calling and leading the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the advantage of check/calling and then leading?

Check raising exposes the strength of your hand and therefore allows you to get a read on his hand base on his reaction.

When you C/C and then lead, you have allowed the hand to move to the turn and you still have no idea where you stand. So when you lead bet gets raised you are now sitting with your thumb up your butt.. are you ahead, behind, does he had AQ too?... you have no idea and no cheap way of finding out.

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you all love check raising flop so much more than calling and leading the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the advantage of check/calling and then leading?

Check raising exposes the strength of your hand and therefore allows you to get a read on his hand base on his reaction.

When you C/C and then lead, you have allowed the hand to move to the turn and you still have no idea where you stand. So when you lead bet gets raised you are now sitting with your thumb up your butt.. are you ahead, behind, does he had AQ too?... you have no idea and no cheap way of finding out.

[/ QUOTE ]


if I Cr and am called i got the same information as leading for the same price except on a later street.. i think chk call and lead is good as well unless im missing something.

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check raising exposes the strength of your hand and therefore allows you to get a read on his hand base on his reaction.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're raising for information? Ugh. Really. Ugh. If you raise, it should either be as a bluff to get better hands to fold (no way he folds AA or KK here to a flop raise), or to get value from worse hands (unlikely he calls a flop raise with pairs less than a queen).

If you raise this flop, you're folding out worse hands and getting called by better ones. You're also bloating the pot out of position with two streets of betting to go when you have a solid hand you'd like to show down in a medium size pot. Not good.

[ QUOTE ]
When you C/C and then lead, you have allowed the hand to move to the turn and you still have no idea where you stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nonsense. Put villain on a range of hands. Play poker. When you lead turn, you're going to get called a fair amount by worse hands thinking you're just messing with them as well as sometimes by a draw when villain raised with a suited connector or suited ace. Better hands will sometimes call, sometimes raise. Worse hands will almost never raise unless villain is absolutely blufftastic. That's a much better situation, on a later street, for the same price as raising the flop.

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

Ben86: Why do you want to be a passive player?

I recommend the c/r on the flop to build the pot and put pressure on the bettor by showing the strength in our hand and getting a reaction on his hand. Continue with a bet on the turn etc..

By c/c and leading the turn... we don't have any idea on what kind of hand the villian has. On the flop Q65 (two diamonds), if he calls the c/r we can put him on a Q, 78 draw, diamonds. etc.

Raise em up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

p.s. I disagree with reptiles post above^^^

Re: 200NL I try to get value and he minraises me.
 

;p;