Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

Location: Casino Arizona in Scottsdale, AZ
Stakes: $20/$40
Players: Tight aggressive game. It’s fairly tight, although there are some weak spots. A super lag, but not a maniac is on the table…and he is playing a lot more hands than can possibly be profitable, but he is somehow up like 4 or 5 racks. I can only give it a poor ** of 5 stars. To be honest, I’m only playing to chat/play with Howard Beale. It’s chopping much too much for my tastes. In general only 2 or 3 to the flop.

Principal players:

BB – 30s white guy. He’s the super lag in this hand. Examples of how he plays:
(a) He’s 3-bet K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] pre-flop.
(b) He limped UTG with 98o and called a raise by Howard Beale in EP along with like 4 other cold-callers to see a flop of 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He bets into the field with top pair and practically begs Howard to clear the field with a raise. When an 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] comes on the turn and SB donked out the obvious flush, he raised the two pair regardless of the flush that’s represented.
(c)When there was a loose raise from EP, and he called two-cold with his K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Then I 3-bet with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from the BB. On the flop of Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], I bet, was raised by EP with A7o, and then he 3-bet his draw. So yeah, he’ll pump his draws.
(d) I raised from HJ with QQ, and get 3-bet by a strong aggressive older woman player (she is actually a poker host in Casino Arizona) in SB. Super lag in BB calls what he thought was just a single raise, but is then forced to put in 3. And then I cap it and he’s forced to put in 4 along with SB. The flop comes 974 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB checks, Super lag bets, I raise, SB folds, super lag 3-bets and I call. Turn is an offsuit 8, and he check-calls me. River is a blank, and he check-calls me again and I win.

MP – Me. (My stack is approximately $700 to start the hand)

Button – Passive weak loose player.

Preflop: (1.5 small bets, 9 players)

I raise in MP with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and am called by button. SB folds and BB looks at his cards and throws in 4 chips casually.

Flop: (6.5 small bets, 3 players) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB leads, I raise, Button calls 2 cold, BB 3-bets, I 4-bet, Button scrams, BB 5-bets, I 6-bet, BB 7-bets…

How far should this go?

Garland

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

Uh I saw super lag and was like "keep raising" then I read the hands and this guy definitely doesn't seem super laggy at all and I think you've put in the appropriate action here to just call down.

Given that you've just called with 2nd nuts on the flop I really don't think there are any rivers you can raise short of a 9.

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

Going two or three bets on a street is far far different than going 7...although I know the results of the hand, I couldn't fathom going multiple bets on another street unless he shows weakness somehow.

As for your description of the poker host, I find her neither of these things. I think she is a fairly predictable player and easy to steal from, and she is welcome in my game anyday because she will rarely play back at me, and she finds odd spots to play back that are usually when she isn't ahead.

Like when I raised in 2nd position with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] with one or two walkers, and she cold called behind me, and instantly mucked her pocket pair on a AKx flop, no imagination whatsoever. She floats that flop, and I am almost forced to check the turn, and she wins...

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

it seems like he'd go 3 bets and check the turn to lose to 1 pair.

so what does that say he'd do with T3s? T9s? 33? would he seriously call TT pf from the bb yet 3 bet K7s?

i'd say go somewhere over 10 bets. if he puts in the 11th bet i'd just call down from there.

but i DONT want him to 7 bet, have you call, and have him check call it down like he's done before.

i'd rather get 11 bets in on the flop.

so my vote is two more raises, unless the "casually" is a tell that you can say he's stronger and doesn't 3 bet his good hands...

i can't fathom stopping at 7 here as a player like this is EXACTLY who you want pumping the flop when you have the 2nd nuts. if he has top set, i lose a TON here.

Barron

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

Based on your description of how he looked at his cards I think he's going to have A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or two black aces which he screw played to trap you.

That being said, once he (or anyone else) gets past five bets, I just call down.

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

[ QUOTE ]

Like when I raised in 2nd position with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] with one or two walkers, and she cold called behind me, and instantly mucked her pocket pair on a AKx flop, no imagination whatsoever. She floats that flop, and I am almost forced to check the turn, and she wins...

[/ QUOTE ]

whats wrong with this? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] If I posted in late pos with 55 and called your raise, id play it the same way.

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

I guess it keeps you out of trouble, but it seems to be giving up too easily for 1 bet when you already called 2 cold in a heads up pot with a marginal hand. My game is a lot higher variance, but I never fold a pair on the flop heads up, I let my opponent give me a chance to win the pot, not fold in a spot my opponent will bet close to 100% of the time.

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

[ QUOTE ]


How far should this go?

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

A few more raises before I even think about stopping. I'd put him on a big draw, or pair + a flush draw. The only real hand to worry about is tens, and it seems strange that he'd just call preflop, and also not check raise the flop w/ it. With a better read on his play as a super lag, I might be ok with putting in all $700.

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

[ QUOTE ]
unless the "casually" is a tell that you can say he's stronger and doesn't 3 bet his good hands...

[/ QUOTE ]

Casually meaning he didn't think about 3-betting pre-flop at all.

Garland

Re: Live 20/40 Middle set, and lots of action...
 

I think 7bets is sufficient here. I am not sure the examples you gave indicate a super LAG. Call down from here. I guess AA, KK, TT, QJ of spades, and the nut flush draw are all still possibilities.