Call with A high on river?
 

I've just started playing LHE again after having played NL for a year so excuse my question if it's obvious.

Had no reads on villain except he had just 3-bet me with A7o OTB an orbit ago, as I had been opening quite a lot (with decent hands though) but so far on flop he didn't seem particularly aggressive. Anyway I call flop raise and turn bet (as i picked up a gutshot to go with my overs), but should I be calling river eventhough I missed.
I felt it very likely I'm beat but I've have seen many LHE players bet FD's all the way so should I make this call given I can beat a busted FD here and I'm getting 8/1, even though I have no read he plays it this way?






PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, Button calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

I think you can safely fold the turn. I don't think that you have a full 6 outs for your overs. I am not sure that I would give you even 3 outs, plus the T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is very dirty. So 5 outs getting 6:1 is just a little thin for me.

-J

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

jaran,

i agree that our outs are tained in various ways, but we have 3 to the nuts and not infrequently have as many as ten. note that this is a blind steal situation at a 6-handed table. plus, often when villain is bluffing we get a free showdown. so i would not fold the turn.

i would fold the river, though. when he fires that last bullet, it becomes a lot more likely that he can beat A-high.

so well played, op.

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

c/r the turn

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

I reackon I can scrape togeather the 6 or 7 outs to call the turn and the point tyler makes about the free showdown is goood too.

The river is tough for me. Obviously you don't beat much. However, if this guy is really unknown, i.e. no stats or reads, I probably call to start building a read.

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

I would probably fold the turn, also feeling that several of your outs are tainted.

Unless you've given the villain some reason to believe that you would not call the river (or would call with nothing), he wouldn't bet the river unless he has ace-high beaten. Fold looks good.

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/r the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

I've been [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] about that for a while too gib... these are my random thoughts...

1) This can be a valid semi-bluff. You have a fair number of outs and you may fold a better hand. Probably not Qx but maybe a 6x or 3x

2) There may even be some value in this if he has the flush draw as he will certainly call, but with a hand that is worse than yours.

However...

1) The only better hands that he would fold would be 6x and 3x. Would he be raising the flop with these?

2) If he is going to raise the flop with a spade draw, surely he would be taking a free card on the turn, making your c/r impossible.

Summary, the c/r can only be an option if villan would raise the flop with 6x, 3x or a total bluff.

edit: for a bit of clarification.

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

Looks good to me. Nice hand. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Call with A high on river?
 

with a weak-read of not too aggro post flop calling the river is pretty bad ... calling the turn isn't too hot either but not gross

also you reasoning to get to the river and on the river is off (IMO) ... you are calling the turn thinking your hand has a chance to be good (the bet you put into the pot must be included)
on the turn the is 6BB, with your mindset you've already comitted to calling the turn (you'll be putting in 2BB for 7BB ... you'll really need to justify your call on the turn with a range and likelyhood of villain probably river action)
***
i like bravos turn c.r against (i was thinking the same thing, especially if you are willing to put in 2bet)
I do this from time to time (but I'm only putting in 2bet, hoping the action go c.r-c.c on the river ... which it's normally does - not too sure how good the play is, I haven't looked over my total time of trying this vs winning the hand)
also ... snitch ... in this spot isn't any hit likely raising the flop??? (FD, INSD, OESD, PP, board hits, even another ace AQ, AJ, AT, A9... 3way i raise any of these all the time)